Debbie Millman is quite possibly the baddest bitch in brand.

If you know design, you know Debbie.

Designer, author, educator, artist, brand consultant and business leader, Debbie has spent more than four decades shaping the creative industry. She's one of only five women in the 100-year history of AIGA to serve as President, the Editorial Director of Print Magazine, Chair and co-founder of the Masters in Branding program at the School of Visual Arts, and the author of eight books.

She's best known as the creator and host of Design Matters—one of the world's longest-running podcasts. For more than 21 years, she's interviewed over 700 of the world's greatest creative minds, earning a reputation as one of the best interviewers in the world.

Somehow, the day we recorded this chat i managed to strike up the courage to find my inner bad bitch and flip the mic to interview her.

In this conversation, we go on an eras tour through Debbie's incredible 40-year career. We talk ambition, identity, creativity, burnout, success, failure, reinvention, and what it really takes to build a meaningful creative life.

There's one thing Debbie is famous for saying:

"Anything worthwhile takes a really long time."

It's a line I think about often.

Debbie started Design Matters because she was burnt out and looking for a creative outlet beyond her day job. She had no idea it would become one of the most influential design podcasts in the world.

I think that's the biggest lesson this whole journey has taught me.

Your career doesn't have to fulfil every part of who you are. Sometimes the most meaningful thing you'll build exists alongside it.

For me, that's been Badass Bitches in Brand. And if this podcast has reminded even one person they're not alone, then it's been worth every second.

Before I hand you over to Debbie, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for listening, for sharing these conversations, and to every incredible woman who's trusted me with her story. I look forward to chatting to you all again next season.

From one badass bitch to another... please welcome Debbie Millman.

Shownotes

Listen to Design Matters

One of the world's longest-running and most influential podcasts, hosted by Debbie Millman.

https://designmattersmedia.com/

Follow Debbie Millman

Keep up with Debbie's latest work, writing, artwork and podcast updates.

https://www.instagram.com/debbiemillman/

Explore PRINT Magazine

Read Debbie's latest articles and conversations on design, creativity and culture.

https://www.printmag.com/

Watch Debbie's TED Talks

From branding and creativity to finding meaning through design.

https://www.ted.com/speakers/debbie_millman

Read Debbie's Books

Explore Debbie's books on design, branding, creativity and life.

https://debbiemillman.com/books-writing/

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Emily Sneddon is a former Coles checkout chick, part-time investigative journalist, and a designer so good that, at the age of four, her preschool ripped off one of her drawings and made it their very own logo.

And who says people don’t value real design?

If you know Em, you’ll know exactly what I mean when I say she’s the biggest ray of sunshine. Full of wit, all heart, and fuelled by a genuine passion for making beautiful graphics.

Em’s career journey is about as non-linear as they come.

Without giving too much away, it starts in Newcastle, takes a wild four-month detour to Mexico for an internship, and eventually lands in Sydney, where she found her feet at some of the best studios in the game, including RE and Christopher Doyle & Co.

Then, like a lot of people, Emily lost her job during COVID.

Faced with uncertainty, she found the courage to back herself and take a shot at a role she never thought she’d get a look-in for.

And sure enough, ten interviews later, she landed a Senior Designer role at COLLINS in San Francisco where she rose to Design Director after almost 4 years —an opportunity that changed her life forever. ❤️

In this episode, I sit down with Em to pick her brain about her creative process and the lessons she’s learned from some of the industry’s greats along the way.

We talk about going deep on an idea. Following your curiosity. Getting lost in the work.

And trusting that sometimes you have to disappear into the process to come back with something worth keeping.

We also kick off my new favourite BABIB segment: Hot Chicks Make Fonts™.

A segment I built specifically so we could talk about Em’s first typeface, Fran Sans.

A love letter to San Francisco, Fran Sans started as a simple idea and quickly spiralled into a full-blown investigation of train nerd culture, all because Em wanted to make something that didn’t exist yet.

And that’s what this episode is really about. The beauty of making things. Seeing where they take you. Making your dreams happen.

Because sometimes the thing that changes your life starts as one tiny spark of curiosity.

Thanks for joining me Em x

SHOWNOTES

Follow or get in touch with Emily Sneddon on 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilysneddon/

Website

https://emilysneddon.com/

Fran Sans Font & Journey Essay

https://emilysneddon.com/fran-sans-essay

https://emilysneddon.com/fransans

COLLINS

https://wearecollins.com/

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She’s also the co-founder of WOOM, the startup fighting period shame, empowering workplaces, and making period care more accessible.

If that wasn’t enough, Erin was also the writer and producer of the 2023 Netflix film ONEFOUR: Against All Odds — a documentary that follows the rise of western Sydney-based drill rap group ONEFOUR.

In this episode, we get into Erin’s career journey — from music journalist making film clips with friends on the side, to building Entropico from her literal living room floor, all the way to being named Production Agency of the Year at last year's 2025 B&T Awards.

We talk about the lessons she’s learned growing the agency, what it was really like taking on the ambitious challenge of producing a Netflix film, what she actually looks for when repping new talent, and why sometimes you shouldn’t aim for first, but second best.

What I love most about Erin is how humble and chill she is. You can tell she’s the kind of producer you’d always want bringing your work to life.

She has a genuine ability to see something special in creative people and a real passion for helping diverse stories be told in ways that enrich culture.

Through Entropico, she’s creating space for new voices to actually shape the industry - not just exist within it.

We need more BABIBs like Erin at the helm, and I can’t wait to see more women like her shine.

SHOWNOTES

Follow Erin

https://entropico.com.au/

https://erinmoy.com.au/

Watch One Four; Against All Odds on Netflix

https://www.netflix.com/au/title/81485425

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That’s my girl, Amy Fraser.

Amy has spent 15+ years scaling brands and communities globally, from founding OK Real, a New York–based mentorship platform with global reach and partnerships including TED, Nike, Mattel, and The Washington Post.

She then went on to help build Diem, a social search engine powered by inclusive AI. Today, she works as a fractional CMO, advising startups on go-to-market strategy and community-led growth.

She’s a natural-born hustler who does a bit of everything - and does it fucking brilliantly.

In this episode, we get into Amy’s career journey, on how she realised agency life wasn't for her after getting her first role as an account exec, from how she backed herself by surrounding herself with the right people, the power of asking for help, and how to get out of your own head long enough to actually do it. We also talk about moving past the cringe of building a personal brand and putting yourself out there.

So if you’ve got an idea, a brand, a business, or you just need a push to back yourself and reach out to people who might actually help you, I think this one will hit.

I’ll be honest, I brought Amy on a little selfishly. When you’re building something, it’s easy to spiral, to not be filled with self-doubt and cringe when putting yourself out there, to to be honest - feel like you’re failing all the time.

This was exactly the conversation I needed. I hope it’s what you need too. 🖤

SHOWNOTES

Amy website

https://www.amyfraser.co/

Follow Amy on

https://www.instagram.com/fr.amy/

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You can tell this is what she loves, especially when it comes to creative people.

For example, while we were recording, she offered our producer her number on the spot when he mentioned his dream of becoming a filmmaker. She really cares about the creative talent, the agencies, and the craft that goes into great work.

As she says perfectly in this episode: “seeing beautiful ideas beautifully executed.”

In this chat, we dive into Leas pivot from account service into talent recruitment, what she really looks for when it comes to creative talent, and the kind of confidence advice a lot of women in our industry need to hear right now — whether you’re trying to land a job or navigating what motherhood means for your career.

We also get into the big question that is on everbodys lips.. the state of the industry right now. Sure. it’s chaotic. But Lea explains why we’re actually going to be okay.

And we also talk about her latest venture, Chat with the Mrs — an intimate series of sessions designed to support people navigating the industry’s constant evolution (details linked in the below)

I just loved chatting to Lea, she is the kind of person who makes you feel calm just by being around her. She’s humble, funny, generous with her time, and tells it like it is. Her advice is genuine, considered and real, and honestly, it’s exactly what this industry needs right now.

Her philosophy is simple: leave the industry better than you found it.

And with women like Lea in our corner… I think we’re going to be okay.

SHOWNOTES

Follow Lea Walker on LinkedIn below

https://www.linkedin.com/in/lea-walker-00829a41/

Mrs Walker

https://www.mrswalkertc.com/

More about 'Chat with the Mrs' speaker series

https://lbbonline.com/news/lea-walker-launches-chat-with-the-mrs?utm_source=Australia+%26+New+Zealand&utm_campaign=14b4d813d6-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2026_03_29_11_09&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_-14b4d813d6-239817010&mc_cid=14b4d813d6&mc_eid=dd3dcce361

Tickets here

https://www.eventbrite.com.au/e/chat-with-the-mrs-tickets-1984525635598#organizer-card

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Cat Wall is an independent copy director based in Naarm, and the woman single-handedly responsible for writing a headline so good I purchased 3 lasagnes that i did not need and some of Australia's most distinct and celebrated brand voices such as Dinner Ladies, Nala, Good Pair Days, Tsu Lange Yor.

Oh, and a metre-long hotdog. Yes, really.

Cat made the rather unusual switch from designer to copywriter on the back of a creative director saying "just give it a go" — and she hasn't looked back since.

We also go behind the scenes on Cat’s writing process — and yes, I asked her about twenty-one questions about it.

Like, why is it important to say the quiet thing we’re all feeling out loud? How do you still say it beautifully when you only have three to eight words?

And how do you name a metre-long hotdog and write toilet product copy in the same 8 hours without the brand voices blurring together?

We tackle the age-old question every studio wrestles with: When is the right time to bring a writer into a project? And, of course, we address the AI-sized elephant in every writer’s room. 

Cat is truly one of a kind, and I’m so grateful she shared so openly in this episode. I hope everyone listening walks away with a deeper appreciation for the craft — and the emotional depth — behind the words writers pour their souls into to make people feel something about brands.

This episode is for every writer, every creative, every person who has ever felt like they have nothing worthwhile to say.

Cat gets it. And I think after this one, you will too.

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In this episode, we’re unpacking burnout, hustle culture, the girlboss hangover…. and what it really takes to redefine ambition without burning yourself to the ground.

I recently read a piece by the brilliant Zoe Scaman about how our industry’s structure can quietly push women toward burnout, not because we’re not tough enough, but because the expectations can be genuinely unsustainable - and it got me thinking a lot. 

So in this episode, we sit down and get into the big question I feel like so many of us are quietly asking right now: why do we work like this?

Where’s the line between loving what you do and slowly burning yourself to the ground?

Where did this pace come from, is this the girlboss era hangover? who does it benefit - and is it actually sustainable?

Bec opens up about her burnout journey as an agency owner, and how it collided with her new role as a mum when her son Otis was born. She goes into what it took to rebuild her relationship with work from the ground up, and why she’s on a mission to help as many women as she can redefine their ambition without losing themselves.

And Adelle shares what it’s like when your health forces you to rewrite the plan and shares some gems on how she’s trying to figure out how to create boundaries as a working mum of three in our industry while still staying ambitious.

Most importantly, we dig into what doing it differently can actually look like - for ourselves, for each other, and for the next generation of women coming up behind us.

So if you’ve been feeling tired in your bones… if you’re a people pleaser who struggles to hold any type of boundary (hi, its me)… and you’re craving a version of success that doesn’t cost you your health or your career than you love, then this one if for you.

🎧 Linkin bio.

SHOWNOTES

Rebecca Jarvie-Gibbs Podcast

https://open.spotify.com/show/5NQ2Hm7wp3nxpC6qrPhipb

Example Agency

https://www.weareexample.com/

Rebecca Linked In

https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebecca-jarvie-gibbs-6009a531/

Adelle Chang Linked In

https://www.linkedin.com/in/adelle-chang-188a2a85/

Creatik

https://www.creatik.com.au/

Zoe Scaman Article 'the stories we need now'

https://zoescaman.substack.com/p/the-stories-we-need-now

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I was so happy to kick off the year with the badass energy it deserves - by sitting down with my gal,  a total grade A BABIB Gemma Rees, Managing Partner / Founder of FABRIC, to unpack the dark arts of account service.

Let’s be real, If there’s one group in our industry that rarely gets the credit they deserve, it’s accounts. The so-called “suits”. The problem-solvers. The ones navigating the clients and creatives, the special personalities and pressures, the budgets and big ideas. All while keeping the wheels turning and asking the right questions along the way while building relationships that keeps the work going and the wheels spinning. 

Or as Gem coins it perfectly, the ‘therapists with a deadline’.   

In this episode, we dive into Gem’s wild, non-linear career journey across account leadership – which is as chaotic, unexpected, and inspiring as they come. We talk about where the origin story behind “the suit” and how wrong it actually kind of it, how to antagonise a brief in the right way to get the best creative work, and what great problem-solving really looks like as a good account service leader when the pressure is on.

Gem also breaks down how she immerses herself in her clients’ worlds and the ingredients that separate good account people from the truly indispensable ones. She also shares some genuinely incredible advice for anyone in – or aspiring to – kick it in account leadership.

Not going to lie, things get a little silly in this one - so go easy on us. We don’t know what was in the air the day we recorded it, but if you’ve ever been in a room with Gem and me, this will make sense. Recorded in the final week of the year, we fully lost the plot. Lean in and laugh. That’s my completely unsolicited 2026 hot tip.

This ep is for or every account person who’s ever felt unseen or overwhelmed. We see you. You’re doing the most and, And let’s be real… the wheels wouldn’t spin without you. 🖤

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If you don’t know Beth O’Brien yet, you’re about to fall in love. South Island-raised, Aotearoa-made, self-described shower ideator, Jurassic Park obsessed, politics nerd – and a proudly neurodivergent Creative Director with a brain that works in the most brilliant ways. 

Beth started as a Colenso intern, learned the craft from the ground up, then took her unique way of thinking global through Droga5 and R/GA in New York and Sydney. She’s helped make seriously culture-shifting work and collected a suite of awards along the way – including New Zealand’s first D&AD Black Pencil and a Cannes Titanium Grand Prix. 

While in New York she also created Role Models for Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign, which was hailed by The New York Times as "a masterpiece of political advertising"

All of that experience has led her to build something of her own. This year she co-founded Princess alongside three of her great mates, Jonny Berger, Cameron Bell and Sam Dickson, helping brands become a category of one – and unlocking hard-to-find growth through creativity. 

This chat gets into Beth’s story, from growing up in a small town and figuring out how to fit in, to the art teacher who clocked her creative problem-solving brilliance early on, and those Colenso years where her style of thinking was celebrated as a gift. We also talk carving your own path when the expected one doesn’t fit, moving through creative block, and finding your rhythm as a neurodivergent creative. 

The 2024 Never Not Creative Mentally-Healthy survey found 10.3% of the ad industry report a diagnosed neurodivergence, rising to 17% in creative and design roles. Beth is living proof of what’s possible when we build better systems and environments for different brains to thrive. 

What I love most about Beth is her steady sense of self and how humble she is about everything she’s achieved. She knows who she is and celebrates it, she’s worked incredibly hard to get where she is and she’s just as determined to help carve that path for other women too.  

The future of our industry feels bright with Princesses like Beth running the show – and I can’t wait to see more of what they create. 

LINKS 

Princess A Creative Company 

https://www.princess-acc.com/ 

Linked In

https://www.linkedin.com/company/princess-a-creative-company/posts/?feedView=all 

Connect with Beth  

https://www.linkedin.com/in/beth-o-brien-220a375a/ 

Instagram 

https://www.instagram.com/princess_acreativecompany 

Hilary Clinton Role Models Campaign 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrX3Ql31URA 

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Designers climbing the leadership ladder....this one’s for you.

The jump from Senior Designer to Design Director is… a lot...also, no one really teaches you how to become a manager.

It’s exciting and challenging, but it's also a shift that can unsettle your confidence and introduce a whole new layer of imposter syndrome.

And leadership is exactly what we unpack today in this episode.

Here in Australia, women hold roughly 20–30% of creative leadership roles. That’s why this episode matters - this shit needs to change, and change starts with telling the truth, sharing our experiences, and backing each other.

Joining me for conversation are two absolute powerhouses that I adore beyond compare: Jacquie Halloran, Design Director at Houston Group and Alanna Lynch, Creative Leadership Coach at Melior Futuri.

Jac’s design career has taken her through some of Australia’s top creative agencies - like RE and a string of other brilliant studios, and most recently Made Thought in London, where she worked on luxury icons like Burberry, Chanel, and The Maybourne Hotel Group.

She is also the Creative Director of this entire podcast, a TRUE badass and talented bitch herself, she has been such a big part the BABIB brand and vision what it is and couldn't have done it without her.

Alongside her is the amazing and wildly accomplished Alanna Lynch. Alana started as a “baby suit” at Ogilvy Sydney before chasing the bright lights of New York City. Over more than a decade, she climbed the ladder to become Managing Director of Chandelier Creative and COO at Artnet, with a casual stint at The New York Times in the mix along the way.

She’s living proof that ambition, creativity, and a bit of Aussie grit can take you anywhere.

Alana now runs her creative leadership and coaching practice, Melior Futuri. I’ve been working with her for a few months, and she’s totally reframed how I see my value as a leader. (She may explain the experience very differently to her therapist, but that’s for another episode.)

In this chat, we unpack the hot topics below

• How do you stay “on the tools” as a DD while also looking out for your team?
• How do you navigate that awkward shift from friend to manager?
• And how do you know whether leadership is even for you, or what it means if its not for you?
• Plus, we go on a wonderful tangent on the question: Is everyone actually creative?

Two big topics. Two incredible women.

I can’t wait for you to hear their stories x

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Especially when you’re independent. And right now, it feels like for once, the small and independent agencies are the ones out front of the race — proving there’s another way to do this industry.

Most days, though, it still feels like you’re flying the plane mid-air… without a manual.

So who better to unpack it all than two women who are living it — and doing it their own way, without the big-agency playbook.

My next two badass honeys need no introduction.

Meet Gemma Wharekawa — Managing Director and Partner at design and digital studio Biggie.

Gem’s a voice-note addict, proud mumma of two, and a total Māori Kiwi badass with the best giggle in the business. Trust me, you’ll hear it — and it’s exactly the feel-good energy you didn’t know you needed.

Today, she’s joined by the bloody brilliant Bonnie MacTavish, Head of Experience Strategy and Co-Founder at digital product studio Nightjar.

Eight years ago, Bon and her two best mates, Christine Sultana and Ahmed Meer, took the leap out of big-agency life with a simple vision: to do digital better.

And that leap has more than paid off — Nightjar is now one of the most exciting digital product studios in the game.

In this conversation, Gem and Bon get real about the highs and lows of running your own agency — the relentless pace, the invisible load, the WTF moments, and all the lessons they’ve learned along the way.

They talk about the fine art of saying no when something doesn’t align with your agency’s purpose, Gem opens up about how reconnecting with her Māori culture shapes the way she leads.

And Bon drops some unforgettable advice for anyone thinking about taking the leap themselves.

If you’ve ever dreamt of starting something of your own, I think this episode will light a fire under you. After hearing these two BABIBS, you’ll probably want to roll the dice and do it too — because honestly, what have you got to lose?

A massive shout-out to my girls for this one. I strategically made them my first guests. I was so nervous Gem held my hand half the time (lol)… and then the audio cut out not once, but twice and we had to keep re recording...

If you need a visual of how I handled it, just google the scene from Bridesmaids where Kristen Wiig has a full mental breakdown, punches the giant cookie, and falls into the fountain. That was me.

On reflection, it’s kind of the perfect analogy for running an agency — you’ll have intense meltdowns, but the magic moments and the learnings always outweigh the chaos.

Anyway — God love these girls. They held this diva down like all badass bitches do.

This episode is raw, real, and exactly the energy you need for that little push to start building your own thing.

Go get ’em, gals. ✨

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A recent piece from It’s Nice That summed it up perfectly (linked below)

There are more grads than ever, fewer entry-level roles, and agencies expecting unicorns who can do it all… without anyone actually giving them the experience to back it up.

No wonder so many young creatives are feeling the pressure, losing confidence, and struggling to see a way forward.

That’s why this next episode feels so timely and special. We’re joined by two absolute BABIBS with unique perspectives. One who’s just kicking off her career – the amazing Misra Imran Khan from Frost*Collective – and my honey Caro Gilroy, Head of Design at DDB Australia, who’s a little further down the path.

In this chat, Caro and Misra open up about their journeys into the industry. From Misra’s all-too-familiar struggle to get her foot in the door after uni and finding her place at Frost*, to Caro’s advice for emerging designers on building soft skills, nailing interviews, and backing yourself.

It’s a good reminder that, as an industry, we have to keep sharing what we’ve learned, keep the doors open, and offer advice to help like someone did for us once – even if we can’t always offer internships or roles.

Say what you will about the younger generations, but personally keep me on my toes (and stop me from becoming that boomer manager, my greatest fear). Their curiosity, fresh perspectives, and genuine love for design remind me on the daily why I fell in love with this kind of work in the first place.

Just look at the winning work and emerging designers from the latest AGDA and BEST Awards. The next generation is already making its mark, and the future of design looks pretty bright if you ask me.

This chat is for every emerging designer trying to find their place. It’s full of honesty, encouragement, and practical advice for staying in it for the long game.

Yeah, the gals! 💥 

Its nice that article - https://www.itsnicethat.com/features/welcome-to-the-entry-level-void-light-and-shade-digital-220925

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We’re joined by Renata Yannoulis, award-winning Strategy Director at TBWA\Sydney. Her approach is always culture-first, whether she’s shaping bold brand platforms or crafting tactical, integrated campaigns. Renata is a founding member of the Advertising Council Australia’s Diversity & Inclusion Committee, a mentor to young women through Assisterhood, and a recent addition to ABC’s Gruen panel for 2025.

This BABIB is always doing it for the gals.

Today she’s joined by her best mate and my work wife, Gretel Maltabarow. (For all the people who didn’t ask, I’m the Disneyland dad in our working relationship). 

If I sound a little drunk in this episode, it’s because I am. This was the last one I recorded after two days of back-to-back BABIB yaps, and Gretel knew exactly what I needed — a huge bottle of pinot and a good chat.

That’s who she is. One of the most strategic suits in the game, having led some of the biggest rebrands in the country with razor-sharp thinking, grit and grace - plus a whole lot of heart. 

In this episode, we unpack their career journeys, from gap years and entry-level grind to the big question: is staying loyal to one agency a blessing or a curse? We talk about why those early, gritty years still matter in strategy, especially for emerging strategists, even in an era where AI is changing the game. We also explore the quiet power of soft skills, the mentors who shaped them, and why paying it forward is so important.

Never one to shy away from tough questions, Gretel flips the mic and asks Renata the one thing I’ve always been too scared to ask: how can suits give feedback to strategists without offending or overstepping, while still getting the best out of the work?

I haven’t had many chances to be in the room with these two women at the same time, but when we recorded this, the sense of support and solidarity between them was undeniable.

These BABIBS are a reminder of the power of female friendship, the mentors who made space for us, and why it matters that we pay it forward for the next generation of strategists.

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Mentor, boss, wife and mum of two, Nic is a straight-shooting creative leader with the kind of fearless energy you can’t help but love.

Nic’s career is anything but ordinary. She dropped out of school, was laughed out of the room as a young female creative, and went on to make waves in global agencies. The next big leap for nic was shifting from Creative to CEO when she co-founded her creative agency ABEL with her best mate and creative partner, Simon Fowler. 

This pocket rocket BABIB has been reshaping how creativity shows up in business - asking the uncomfortable questions no one else will, building campaigns that matter, and proving that guts and grit will get you further than a perfect CV ever could.

In this episode, we dive into Nic’s journey: from those early knockbacks to building ABEL, making the leap from creative to founder and the lessons learned along the way, the campaign that almost got her agency cancelled, and the very real chaos and pressure of being a working mum and agency owner trying to “have it all” while raising a family and running a business. She also shares her go-to concepting practice - simple but powerful tips that any creative can use to sharpen their ideas.

I’ve known Nic for more than 20 years, but I swear I learned more about her in this one-hour chat than I ever have before. I walked away thinking, damn — I’m so bloody proud of this badass queen and the inspiring leader she’s become, we need to hear more of this.

This is a conversation about resilience, the courage to back yourself, and why the best ideas come from asking the toughest questions in a room where no one else will.

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In this episode, we dive into her unexpected path into advertising and branding, chatting through how she built (and sold!) a business while on maternity leave, made the leap from agency to client-side, and her perspective on what big clients are really looking for from agencies today.

This is a conversation about courage, creativity, and the magic of taking risks with the right team beside you.

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