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Claire Cordeaux joins us from BAPAM (which stands for the British Association for Performing Arts Medicine) whose mission it is to provide information and training to prevent poor health, provide care when things go wrong, support healthy careers and aid recovery from illness. They work across all the performing arts including music.

Liam Hennessy is from Help Musicians UK, which focuses on UK musicians only, helping them in may ways from starting out through to retirement. They have a wide brief including providing funds for creative development of artists, health & welfare services, a mental health helpline and a hearing health scheme which aims to preventhearing problems which could otherwise bring musicians careers to an untimely end.

Useful stuff mentioned in the podcast includes:

BAPAM website

Help Musicians UK website

Emerging Musicians Health Scheme

Liam Hennessy music

Aartwork music

Mental health concerns? Call MusicMindsMatter & look at the Health Musician UK resources

Physical health concerns? BAPAM

Hearing concerns? Get in touch with Help Musicians UK

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Today’s guest is Ian Anderson, the driving force behind rock band Jethro Tull.

Ian formed Jethro Tull in 1967 and this year – 55 years later - they released their 22nd studio album, The Zealot Game, which hit the Top 10 in the UK and beyond.

Ian has always stood out. His instrument of choice is unusually the flute, which he is in the habit of playing while standing on one leg.

Jethro Tull have had huge success with multiple gold and platinum albums that topped the charts on both sides of the Atlantic, they appeared on The Rolling Stones’ Rock & Roll Circus and alongside Jimi Hendrix at the legendary 1970 Isle of Wight Festival.

Ian feared that his career as a professional musician might be a brief one and so set out to learn exactly how the music industry works to give himself the option of moving into a role in a record company or as a producer should the paying gigs dry up. They never did but he has used that knowledge to sustain his career over the decades and it has allowed him to become increasingly self-sufficient. These days Ian manages himself, manages the release and distribution of his records and even manages the day to day logistics of his tours.

There is not much Ian does not know about the life of a gigging musician and the business of music.

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Alongside his management career, Keith lectured on the music business as a Senior Fellow at the University Of Westminsterand has led many industry organisations and initiatives including the Music Managers Forum.

Keith's career has been punctuated by many remarkable achievements and it's all the more impressive because of the prejudice that he has suffered throughout his life.

Born to West African parents in the North of England, he experienced racism on a regular and repeated basis, not least during his early days in the music industry. His response was "Don't be bitter, be better" and he became, as Billboard described him, "a tireless campaigner for equal opportunities".

More than anything, Keith is one of the most respected and widely liked people in the music industry. He has some fantastic advice for people starting out in it which he shares in this interview.

Keith was awarded the OBE in 2015 and in 2021 was elected Rector of Dundee University.

Keith talks about managing Stevie Wonder, overcoming racial prejudice, teaching the business of music & why this is the most exciting time to be entering the music industry since the 1960's.

He wrote an open letter to the music industry on racism which you can find here.

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In recent years, Ayla has crossed the line into Synch. She oversees the European Synch and Creative Services teams at Warner Chappell and now spends a lot of time pitching to music supervisors.

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Sara's done an awful lot of things in the music industry. She managed Top Loader, Reef and Tom Baxter, taking Top Loader, in particular, to huge success.

But throughout her career, Sara has had a close connection to that sweet spot where audio meets video, music meets film.

She started in the video department at Sony, helping create videos to promote singles. She went on to work as a music supervisor sourcing music for Hollywood movies and now promotes the catalogue of Concord for use in Films, TV and Adverts.

In this episode, Sara explains what Synch is, how it differs between Film, TV and Ads, what music supervisors are looking for and how to pitch your music to them.

This is highly a recommended listen for those of you looking to get your music more well known and make more money.

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Paul has looked after so many huge acts including James Bay, McFly, Busted, Corinne Bailey Rae, Laura Mvula and Yungblud.

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He began hanging around record studios in the 1930s (one of his first jobs was working with Duke Ellington) and he continued working in them as engineer or producer until the 2020s. The roll call of musicians he's worked with is mind-blowing: Quincy Jones, Frank Sinatra, Paul McCartney, Steely Dan, Sam Cooke, Elvis Presley, Ray Charles, Madonna, Elvis Costello & Michael Jackson to name but a few. The word legend is bandied about but Al is, beyond doubt, a bona fide legend. He recorded or mixed over 150 gold and platinum albums. He won 22 Grammy's, more than any other engineer or mixer. He even has a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.

He shares his 70+ years of experience of working in the industry and some of the many life lessons he learned in his life in this conversation.

Not only a great a great success, Al was also a wonderful man, generous with others in the industry, kind to animals, a good friend. He sadly passed away in 2021 after recording this conversation, but I offer this episode, with the blessing of his wife Lisa, as a tribute to him, his life and career.

He was one of the all time greats in his field - and an engaging and frank conversationalist to boot!

This is well worth a long listen.

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Ian is one of a kind, a real industry all rounder, with more than 30 years experience helping the careers of The Cure, Elvis Costello, Kate Bush, Pink Floyd, Coldplay, Keane, Richard Hawley and many more artists.

Unusually, he has worked in both Marketing and A&R and on the publishing and records sides of the business.

His current role - as Head Of Repetoire & Marketing at BMG - draws on all of this experince.

Ian has also lectured on the Music Business & Entrepreneurship at the Institute Of Contemporary Music.

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Miles career also exploded.

He climbed to the top of the A&R ladder at Parlophone, eventually becoming Chairman of the label as well as President of Virgin Records and Chairman of Warner Brothers.

He has been heavily involved in the careers of Kylie Minogue, Tinie Tempah, Coldplay, Gorillaz, Royal Blood, Emeli Sande, Blur, Paul Weller, Stereophonics, Kano, Lily Allen amongst others and has won the Music Week A&R Award twice. 

Phil Harvey (Coldplay Manager) said in an interview with Music Week, 'When in 2024, robots end up replacing humans throughout the music industry, the designers will probably base the prototype on Miles Leonard. Musically catholic with a predilection for funk, strong willed, creative, calm under pressure, fiercely loyal, tough as old boots and more than a little stubborn. Miles has been part of Coldplays inner circle since we signed to Parlophone in 1999 and he is still the man we want to most impress.'

Miles stepped down from his role as Chairman but continues to be an A&R Executive for Warner Music as well as starting up his own A&R/Music Creative Consultancy - Viva La Music – to focus on broader opportunities across this ever growing and multi-faceted industry. 

Miles mentioned the beats bought by Lil Nas X, which he acquired at Beat Stars.

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Ian Dench is one of the very few to have that experience which makes his perspective on how the industry works and what you need to focus on to break into it extremely valuable.

And it's not been plain saling all the way. Ian's first professional band looked good for success but after 8 years of trying and 2 record deals later, they threw in the towel. At that point Ian was in his mid-twenties and could easily have given up, but he chose to adjust his focus and double down on his music.

This episode is worth listening to just to find out what he did to change his fortunes. His next band EMF went on to have incredibe "overnight" success, storming to the top of the US charts and becoming a global smash. He then pivoted into writing songs for other artists and had big hits with Beyonce, Shakir and The Prodigy among others, via a detour as Vice President of A&R at Epic Records in New York.

Ian contines to perform, write songs and develop other artists.

Listen to our interview to find out how he has built his successful career, what it is like to write for Beyonce and how it feels to pick to ride on the crest of the wave of major success as an artist.

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In this episode, Cliff talks about: 

Artifical Intelligence More here Blockchain More here NFT’s More here Metaverse More here

Step 1: Join PRS, MCPS & PPL

PRS collect performance income due to songs in UK. If you write songs you NEED to become a member of PRS & MCPS which collects mechanical income to get paid. Membership of both is £100 per year.  

PPL collects performance income due to recordings in the UK. You really NEED to join PPL if you are making records and want to get paid. Membership is free.

Step 2: Collect the right data & register it

Data and Metadata - the basic information about a recording performer, song-writer, recording or song that you register at PRS, MCPS & PPL.

Credits Due a campaign to ensure “complete & accurate song metadata is attached to all recordings at the point of creation” so that you, the creator get paid!

5 pieces of data that Credits Due says you need to get are:

Creator identifiers & role codes (IPI, IPN & ISNI)

• IPI = Interested Parties Information. For SONG WRITERS. PRS will give you this number when you join. It tells the digital world who you are so it can pay you
• IPN = International Performer Number. For RECORDING ARTIST from PPL. It identifies you as a performer on all digital platforms. 

Musical work identifier (ISWC)

• Unique identifier for a specific song. It will be automatically assigned when you register your songs at PRS. More here.

Recording identifier (ISRC)

•  A song has only one ISWC but can be recorded loads of different times. Each recording should have its own ISRC. You get these from PPL when you register your recordings.

Song title & alternative song titles

Writer, performer, producer & contributor names

Ivors Academy

The UK’s independent professional association for songwriters & composers which campaigns to improve the standing and financial returns of songwriters. Good resources here. Annual fees = £92 or £50 (under 25)

Ivors Academy Trust Raises funds to support, educate and nurture songwriters and composers

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When I decided to start gigomi, hers was one of the first names on my list of people to ask onto the podcast.

She represents musicians from all genres and at all stages of their careers from those completely new to the business through to chart-topping artists and these have included Robbie Williams, PJ Harvey, Paloma Faith, George Ezra among many others.

Ann is also author of “Music: The Business” published by Penguin Random House which is the key textbook on all music business further education courses in the UK.  You can buy it on Amazon here.

This, the recently updated 8th edition, focuses particularly on the Do It Yourself musician and in this episode of the podcast Ann takes us through the legal minefield of the early days of a musician’s career and explains what you need to know and do to protect yourself and your music and give yourself a solid platform to make your music.

She regularly gives masterclasses and training in all aspects of the legal side of the music business.

You can find Ann at ssb.co.uk.

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Performing remains core to her life and career and she advises young musicians to “Be prepared, ready and rehearsed to play your 3 best songs anywhere for anyone” and don’t judge these opportunities...you don’t know who is in the room… there could be someone who having a pint whose brother or sister works [in the industry]”

Whilst KT has built a successful career she was quick to admit that life of a gigging musician can be very hard at times and offers advice on how to get the right team around you.

This episode is packed with good advice:

• Importance of learning to use recording software
• Be careful what you sign - its so important to make yourself take an interest in the business side of things. KT says that “delegating and relying on other people to do everything bit me on the arse” and particularly keep an eye on the costs of the people you hire.
• Remember you are the boss
• Get the right people around you - they represent you! How your team act reflects 
• Calm assertiveness
• Consistent work ethic 
• If she could do it again she would have been firmer in holding people who she worked with to higher standards

About KT Tunstall

KT Tunstall is a Scottish singer songwriter. She shot to fame in 2004 with the song Black Horse and The Cherry Tree and the accompanying album went on to sell 4 million copies.

Links

KT mentioned Tony Moore who ran the Kashmir club where KT was discovered now runs a similar evening at The Bedford Pub in Balham.

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What does a manager do?

“We look after 2 sides of an artist’s life, we look after their creative life and we look after their business life. As far as the creative side is concerned..you are trying to put them in the best creative environment for them to make their art, to make their music… you might introduce them to songwriters, to producers, studio situations. You work with them on developing their live performance. All the things that they need to do...to face the world in a public way...and that could take 2 or 3 years. The other side is you get involved in deal-making, so you try to get them in to record deals...publishing deals, merchandising, all their live activity, any corporate stuff, any branding deals that come in..”

Paul McDonald, Closer Artists

This episode is packed with good advice:

• When to look for a manager
• How to find the best manager for you
• What you need to do to come to the attention of people like Paul
• How to take responsibility for all aspects of your career
• How Paul works with artists to give them the best chance of succeeding
• How to build a team to take your career to the next level
• Above all success is built on 10% inspiration, 90% perspiration

About Paul McDonald

Paul McDonald is an artist manager who runs Closer Artists where he works with George Ezra, James Bay, James Morrison and several other artists and writers. Before entering the management business, Paul worked in marketing and A&R for London Records, Virgin Records and the publisher Warner Chappell.

Links

Paul mentioned: Soundcloud, getting discovered via BBC Introducing (where Paul found Holly Humberstone) and Ann Harrison’s excellent book on the music industry Music: The Business

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Phil Nelson explains what you need to do to earn the attention of “the managers, the agents, the labels and the other people” who might help you supercharge your career.

He talks about the Do It Yourself ladders he has developed to help you understand more clearly what you are trying to achieve, how far away from reaching that goal you currently are and the specific things you need to do right now.

This episode is packed with good advice about how to:

• Build a fanbase that you really own
• Be proactive and break down the big scary tasks into smaller steps
• Network to find people who can help you grow your 
• Develop momentum
• Get hold of grants that will help you find time
• Be ready for when an opportunity appears

About Phil Nelson

Phil Nelson wears three hats in the music industry:

• Manager who has looked after  artists for more than 30 years including Levellers (headlined Glastonbury, 1 platinum and 5 gold albums, Beautiful Days Festival), Grammy Award-winning Aqualung, Duke Special, Sweet Billy Pilgrim and 
• Lecturer in Music Business at BIMM colleges
• Researcher: Phil runs Pathwaysintomusic.com which researches the journey DIY artists take into the industry

Links

Phil mentioned: the email Mailchimp, the music site Bandcamp,  potential sources of grants for early career artists including HelpmusiciansUK, PRS Foundation, ArtsCouncil England, Creative Scotland, Arts Council of Wales, Arts Council Northern Ireland, YouthMusic - under 25’s only. He also mentioned crowdfunding sites including Patreon and suggested you look at the career of Amanda Palmer who wrote  The Art Of Asking and gave a Ted Talk on the subject.

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gigomi is for up and coming musicians who are serious about turning their talent into a career.

Dave is a 30+ year veteran of the music industry (he has organised a festival in Spain featuring Bob Dylan, run Abbey Road Studios and is currently CEO of one of the world's biggest independent music publishers).

Each week he will interview an artist or executive about their experience of how the music industry really works and what you can do to give yourself the best chance of breaking in to make a good living, build a good life and create the fantastic music you were put on earth to create.

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