As part of the Royal College of Art (RCA) MA graduate students', 'Curating Contemporary Art Exhibition' and their curatorial show, Feed Back, I was invited to lead a discussion exploring remediating legacies, curatorial repair and the role of artistic practice in defining and potentially shaping new legacies. 

Our conversation took place in the Hanger space at the RCA, an open concrete and brick exhibition space with numerous MA students assembling their curatorial shows. So during our conversation expect to hear the hive like activity of a space in preparation.

The curatorial team responsible for Feed Back were: Apoorva Subbanna, Yi Fan, Serena Gao, Francesca Inciong, Stephanie Rubio, Arina Baburskova and Indy Calland

In conversation were artists: Gülce Tulçalı & Phoebe Davies

We talk about dystopian realities, about the body, about making, about the artist’s role responding to the world around us. We talk about tenant farming and about collectivity and the commons.

Gülce Tulçalı Bio

Phoebe Davies Bio

Links

Now, The Invisible Committee

Octavia's Brood

Vandana Shiva, Reclaiming The Commons

Slade Farm Organics & Podcast

Title: It's Your Job to Make the Work - A Holding Up The Ladder production in collaboration with RCA feat. Gülce Tulçalı and Phoebe Davies

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We talk about how we’re all storytellers; about music; about the power of live music; about the myth of the 10,000 hours; about Prince; about whether we should define ourselves as 'artists'; about authenticity and consciousness; about knowing and unknowing and about being students forever. I’ve produced almost 60 podcast episodes and this is one of my favourites. Because, for me, there is nothing more fulfilling than sitting around with creative people talking about music and making and process - it’s why this podcast exists. I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

Guests: Zadie Smith & Devonté Hynes

Title: I would never call myself an artist

Music: Lil Nas X, Industry Baby; Arctic Monkeys, There'd Better Be a Mirrorball; Maggie Rogers, That's Where I Am; Knucks, Alpha House

Links

Devonté Hynes IG and Website

Zadie Smith Website

Zadie interview on latest book, The Fraud - BBC Sounds, This Cultural Life

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Guest: Francis Fuster

Title: You gotta be ready

Music: Bach, Handel, Miles Davis and John Coltrane

Music links

Hugh Masekela, Sekunjalo

Geraldo Pino and the Heartbeats, Maria Lef for Waka

Hugh Masekela, Don't go lose it baby

Hugh Masekela, Bring Him Back Home (Nelson Mandela)

Francis Fuster, Najesueh

Other links

Shango-Ja Martial Arts Academy

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Born in Sierra Leone to a Liberian mother and Swiss father. Now 81 (but looks more like a man in his 60's!) a 7th Dan black belt in karate, upright and sharp as a tack. We talk about his journey from dancing, to drumming, to teaching, to percussion. About being a member of the band described as the Beatles of Africa, Gerald Pino and The Heartbeats.

We talk about his close friendship with icon and disruptor musician Fela Kuti, also the reason he started learning karate. How he went from Sierra Leone to Liberia, to Ivory Coast, to Ghana, to Nigeria, ending up in New York and the wildness of that period. We talk about playing with Paul Simon and the huge record that was Graceland. And his close professional and personal relationship with Hugh Masekela.

This was a joyous interview (what was meant to be an hour long conversation, was closer to 2!) So it's divided into 2 parts.

Guest: Francis Fuster

Title: You gotta be ready

Music: Bach, Handel, Miles Davis and John Coltrane

Music links

Geraldo Pino and the Heartbeats, Maria Lef for Waka

Hugh Masekela, Don't go lose it baby

Hugh Masekela, Bring Him Back Home (Nelson Mandela)

Francis Fuster, Najesueh

Other links

Shango-Ja Martial Arts Academy

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Podcast IG

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Holding up the Ladder links:

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And if you haven't done so already, I recommend listening to Part 1 to get a full picture.

Guest: Rich Harless

Title: It’s like skywriting in a hurricane

Music: Depeche Mode, David Bowie, Purple Disco Machine

Links:

Rich Harless on Linkedin

Feather agency

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Rich Harless is a Berlin-based, US-born entrepreneur and the founder of Feather, a company pioneering AI-powered brand measurement for digital advertisers. Prior to launching Feather, Rich held leadership roles at leading music and media companies such as AOL, Shazam, and Digitalstage.io, where he collaborated with some of the world’s largest streaming platforms, record labels, and a diverse range of independent artists. With over two decades of experience across digital advertising, emerging technology, and the creative industries, Rich has worked at the intersection of AI, blockchain, and augmented reality, helping brands and media platforms navigate technological shifts.

We talk about old vs. new music; the disconnect between art and business; about streaming platforms. The role of social media for independent artists, as Rich says it’s good for discovery but not for monetisation.

And because this is a never before heard conversation from my archive and the tech space changes so rapidly, Rich very kindly came back on the pod to chat with me about what he’s up to now and the latest changes in the tech space. For example, the first time we spoke it was centred around web 3 and NFTs and now the focus has shifted to AI. I decided to keep it in, because Rich explains things so clearly it helps provide a kind of technological arc, so to speak, to understand where things are at now. So this is a 2-parter. Tune in next week Wednesday to hear the follow-up conversation we had just last month.

Guest: Rich Harless

Title: It’s like skywriting in a hurricane

Music: Depeche Mode, David Bowie, Purple Disco Machine

Links:

Rich Harless on Linkedin

Feather agency

Ted Gioia - Is Old Music Killing New Music?

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It seems to me that maturity, ageing in the Arts is actually beneficial. Unlike other professions where ageing is synonymous with decline, with cognitive or physical impairment - people in sports have an early retirement age for that reason, Or former US president Biden wasn’t he forced to step down because of his cognitive decline due to his age? That doesn’t seem to apply to artists. When it comes to the Arts, age and maturity actually have the opposite effect - we can keep getting better. 

And there are many examples of this: Irish writer Edna O’Brien lived to 93. French writer Annie Ernaux now 84, won the Nobel prize for literature at the age of 82. Classical pianists only seem to get better with age, they have all the technique of years of practice without the need for showmanship that you sometimes see in younger pianists. I think about artists like Sonia Boyce who represented Britain at the Venice Biennale in her 60s or figurative painter Claudette Johnson also in her 60s. What about American abstract painter Stanley Whitney still making beautiful work at 79 or Indian artist, Arpita Singh. Now 87, I recently went to her solo exhibition at London’s Serpentine and her work took my breath away, her use of colour and composition, I felt like I was seeing an entirely new interpretation of artistic expression.

I mean as long as you can pick up a paintbrush or pencil, or a camera, the work doesn’t and shouldn’t stop. And I’m not saying that we have to wait until we’re in our 80s to produce works that’s meaningful. I’m saying that our process produces the sound and the deeper the process the richer the sound. 

Music Refs:

Ray LaMontagne, Jolene

Joni Mitchell, Both Sides Now from 1969

Joni Mitchell, Both Sides Now from 2000 

Holding up the Ladder links:

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Carri Twigg is the co-founder and head of development for Culture House media, a Black, Brown, women-owned, premium film and TV production company that specialises in storytelling about the cultural questions that shape society, politics, and identity. They’re responsible for series including Netflix Top Ten series, Ladies First: A story of Women in Hip Hop, The Hair Tales for Hulu and OWN and Growing Up for Disney+.

Before her pivot to entertainment, Carri served in the Obama White House as Special Assistant to the President and Director of Public Engagement for then Vice President Biden. Carri spent over 10 years working at every level of American politics and government. And in 2022, was appointed by then President Biden to the President’s Advisory Committee on the Arts and the Kennedy Center board.

We talk about growing up in Ohio with mixed heritage, the relationship between culture and politics. We talk about self-censorship, should we for example keep content in films that are racist is it harmful and if so why?

I have to say this is the best exegesis of what I’d call ‘Americanness’ I’ve ever heard and really contextualises the kind of ‘soup’ that is US politics and culture. Carri now has a politics and culture podcast with Brad Jenkins called Twigg & Jenkins, a continuation of her engagement in US politics. She's also written a fantastic piece for Rolling Stone magazine about what she describes as ‘Trump’s cultural capture', very much reasserting much of our conversation.

Guest: Carri Twigg

Title: Sometimes culture really pushes politics and sometimes politics pushes culture’

Music: Amanda Jones, Rodney Chrome, Meshell Ndegeocello - The Hair Tales

Yussef Dayes & Tom Misch, What Kinda Music

Links

Culture House ; IG & Substack

Carri Twigg IG

Twigg & Jenkins podcast website

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I talk about my space and I ask some of my artist friends to share their spaces. But why the word 'sacred?' Creation is a generative act. Where ideas are 'birthed' into the world - I unpack this idea further and its connection to sacredness.

Holding up the Ladder links:

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eL Seed is a contemporary artist whose practice bridges painting and sculpture, developing a unique visual language inspired by the tradition of calligraphy and the energy of urban art. He uses art to explore ideas around identity, cultural heritage, creating connection and inspiring ideas of unity. About how he engages with the communities where his art is placed. Whether it be the Coptic community of Zaraeeb in Cairo or a rural community in Nepal. For eL Seed art is an amplifier, it’s about humanity and that really comes through in our discussion.

I remember listening to an interview with British sculptor Anthony Gormley, perhaps best known for his life size and life-like cast iron figures of men, he said that art belongs in the world, that ‘art is about life and it needs to be in life.’ That it can change the way we behave, think and feel. That’s exactly how I would describe eL Seed’s work.

Guest: eL Seed

Title: ‘Artists exist because there is an audience’

Music: Eminem Stan, Booba, Fairuz, Umm Kultum

Links

Website - https://elseed-art.com/

IG - https://www.instagram.com/elseed/

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@elseedart

Cairo project - https://youtu.be/g9M3HIjHuq0?si=0tfE03TxY5nxvJaE

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In today's episode of never before heard conversations from my archive, I speak with gallerist and co-founder of Addis Fine Art, Rakeb Sile.

Addis Fine Art specialises in modern and contemporary art from the Horn of Africa and its diasporas. Along with co-founder Mesai Haileleul, Rakeb started the gallery to connect Ethiopian artists to the world and to spotlight underrepresented talent from the area.

We talk about finding your way. About how there are so few African gallerists who are from the same place as the artists they represent. As Rakeb says, ‘we have to do the work to dismantle that’.

One of things that struck me the most interviewing Rakeb is that our lives aren’t linear. It’s OK to pivot, to course correct, to start again. I’ve interviewed a number of people over the 4 seasons of this podcast and Rakeb is the first to say that she’s learnt more from her failures than her successes. 

Guest: Rakeb Sile

Title: How much of Africa do people really want to know?

Music: Mereba, The Jungle is the Only Way Out

Links: Addis Fine Art Website & IG ; Rakeb Sile IG

Artists mentioned:

• Amel Bashier
• Engdaye Lemma
• Selome Muleta
• Merikokeb Berhanu

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I also share a list of the things that bring me delight. From riding my bicycle, to dancing in the kitchen, to reading poetry out loud and my love of singer Michael Bolton!

References

Toni Morrison, The Nation - No Place for Self-Pity, No Room for Fear

Links

Website: https://www.holdinguptheladder.com/

IG: https://www.instagram.com/holdinguptheladder/

Israel-Palestine project: https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/holding-up-the-ladder-podcast-israel-palestine

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We talk about his commitment to learning, to his love of painting elderly people, how he manages to relay so much emotion through his subjects, especially the eyes. How he enjoys the solitary nature of his work, his harshest critic being his girlfriend. And we of course talk about music.

One of the things that struck me the most about our conversation and why I love interviewing people from around the world, was how Christian talks about his practice. With none of the self-deprecation associated with British culture, Christian loves his work and states it as fact, without any guile or artifice.

Guest: Christian Allison

Title: There’s something unique about the eyes that has to come alive

Music: Dunsin Oyekan and Nathaniel Bassey

Links

Christian's Website

Christian's IG

Holding up the Ladder links

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That art and Its utility isn’t measured by its function. Its utility simply is. It is because you are and you are the maker of it.

Links

Website: https://www.holdinguptheladder.com/

IG: https://www.instagram.com/holdinguptheladder/

Israel-Palestine project: https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/holding-up-the-ladder-podcast-israel-palestine

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Along with his co-founder Seto Adiputra, Adret is discreetly tucked away between the high fashion luxury brands of London’s New Bond Street and the bespoke tailors of Saville Row. Their tagline - ‘Smartly Tailored for Smart Relaxing.’

We talk about patience, about finding your way, about imposter syndrome, about being uncompromising. About independence and the musical Singing in the Rain. And how a young man from a family of musicians, with a love for BMX bikes, who studied art and design, ended up with his own menswear brand. And of course we talk about music.

Guest: Adam Rogers

Title: It was the constant idea of independence

Music: Clifford St playlist Matthew Halsall, Johnny Hartmann

Links: Adret on IG

Other Links:

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The first IBTA is a manifesto of sorts. A reflection on my time away, why I love the Arts so much, why the Arts are important and why we need to protect artists. It's called 'I've been thinking about...Us'

Website: https://www.holdinguptheladder.com/

IG: https://www.instagram.com/holdinguptheladder/

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Our first episode goes live on Sunday 6th April and then Wednesday 9th April.

I'll also be sharing details of an upcoming project I've been working on that I'm really passionate about - a limited HUTL series around the events that lead up to 7th October and the ensuing crisis in Gaza. To find out more and ways to support you can click here

Website: https://www.holdinguptheladder.com/

IG: https://www.instagram.com/holdinguptheladder/

Israel-Palestine project: https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/holding-up-the-ladder-podcast-israel-palestine

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This episode is in collaboration with Black British Art, an arts platform that focuses on championing, educating, curating and advising on all that is Black British Art. 

Its founder Lisa Anderson-Diffang, a curator, consultant and Interim Managing Director of The Black Cultural Archives* chairs the discussion asking the question - ‘Are we having a Black British Art Renaissance?’. 

Our panellists were: 

Bolanle Tajudeen - founder of Black Blossoms – an expanded curatorial platform showcasing contemporary Black women and non-binary artists since 2015. In 2020 Bolanle launched the Black Blossoms School of Art and Culture, an online learning platform decolonizing art education. 

Bernice Mulenga is a London based multidisciplinary artist, who prioritises the use of analog processes in their work. Mulenga’s work also explores recurring themes surrounding their identity, sexuality, grief, family, and Congolese culture. 

And Dr Kimathi Donkor, Kimathi is a contemporary artist. His work re-imagines mythic, legendary and everyday encounters across Africa and its global Diasporas, principally in painting. Dr Donkor earned his PhD at Chelsea College of Arts and he is currently Course Leader for the BA (Hons) degree in Fine Art: Painting at Camberwell College of Arts. 

On the night we were served a bespoke menu consistent with the Black British Art theme prepared by The Future Plate, the chef was William Chilila.

The episode was produced and recorded by AiAi studios

*Lisa Anderson is now Managing Director of the Black Cultural Archives

Title: 'Are we having a Black British Art Renaissance?’

LINKS:

Panellists

Bolanle Tajudeen: https://www.black-blossoms.online/; IG - @blackblossoms.online

Bernice Mulenga: https://www.bernicemulenga.com/; IG - @burneece 

Dr Kimathi Donkor: https://www.kimathidonkor.net/; IG - @kimathi.donkor

Chair

Lisa Anderson-Diffang: IG - @lisaandersonaa

Black British Art: IG - @blackbritishart

Black Cultural Archives: https://blackculturalarchives.org/

Food

The Future Plate - https://www.thefutureplate.com/

William Chilila: IG - @william_chilila

Salon Series I Playlist - https://tinyurl.com/5mf5n6sn

For images of the event head to the podcast website - https://www.holdinguptheladder.com/

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This episode was so powerful and whilst it was recorded sometime in June, the themes remain ever-relevant. We talk about the ways in which beauty, art and justice intersect. Can beauty be found in justice, can art be used as an instrument for justice? What does justice really mean? We talk about faith and beauty. Beauty not as perfection, it’s not cosmetic - but beauty as a journey - a journey into the new. And we can’t talk about beauty without talking about sacrifice and suffering - suffering that leads to what Mako calls ‘generative love’. 

I have so much to say about this episode, so much that it’s better that I just say less and you listen and draw your own conclusions.

Guests: Makoto Fujimura & Haejin Shim

Title: Beauty, Art & Justice

Music on playlist: Susie Ibarra, Walking on Water

Makoto Fujimura Links:

Bio

Website

IG

Twitter

Kintsugi Academy

Culture Care Podcast

Books

Haejin Shim Links:

Bio

IG

Embers International Website

Embers International IG

Shim & Associates Law Firm

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Alexander is an award-winning composer, arranger and educator who trained at Musikhochschule Hanns Eisler in Berlin, at New York’s Juilliard and is currently doing his doctorate at the Manhattan School of Music. Alexander’s work is wide-ranging, he writes for ensembles, choral music, orchestras, solo instruments, film scores and how I discovered him, transcribing animal sounds.

We talk about Alexander’s childhood raised in a household of musicians. His composition process, how his lockdown pastime of transcribing animal sounds has not only impacted his composition writing but other musicians. We talk about why a lot of his work centres around nature and climate change, but that he always desires to convey a hopeful message- that hope and positivity can be more effective tools to engage people rather than fear and cynicism.

We talk about how the classical music emphasis on technique and virtuosity isn’t always as important as the story or the passion a musician is trying to convey. We talk about how multi-faceted art and the artist is - as Alexander says, a line I love, 'critique is very easy, but art is difficult’. 

My conversation with Alexander wasn’t about finding or establishing answers, for me it was - and why I love doing this podcast - about someone creating work that caused me to consider the world around me in a new way. And as this series is about creative ways to bring about social change, is it possible to do so in joyful and unburdened ways, in ways that inspire fascination and curiosity? I think Alexander has inadvertently done that. Isn’t that what art can do - bypass the mind and go straight to the heart?

Guest: Alexander Liebermann

Title: What is music?

Music on playlist: Erwin Schulhoff, Hot - Sonate

Alexander's links:

Bio

Website

IG

Featured music by Alexander:

De Poeta

Cello Sonata, II, Lento (feat. Raphaël Liebermann)

Erwachen  follow the score here

Welcome to the Anthroprocene

Animal song:

Humpback whale

Uirapuru Wren

Seal

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We talk about Yvadney’s journey into styling, about the creative personality that isn’t linear, that loves exploring and learning new things. We talk about how to have frank conversations with children about racism in an age appropriate way. We talk about the world of mum bloggers, that according to Yvadney is, ‘absolutely nuts’ and why she wanted to set up her own blog Mum’s that Slay. We talk about some of the tokenistic and profiteering responses to George Floyd’s murder and how Yvadney felt compelled to speak out against the hypocrisy of it all. 

We talk about the creative personality. We about the tech start up she launched with her husband during the pandemic - Musingobingo - an online music bingo game, I’ve played it a few times it’s really really fun! 

Yvadney is a bit of a hero of mine - as a friend, I see how she raises her kids, how she juggles all her different roles it’s her realness that inspires me - there’s so much pretending and curating of our lives - Yvadney is honest when it’s hard, she rejoices at the small everyday wins and I watch her raise two quirky, free, unburdened black children with her husband and it inspires no end. The ordinary is for me extraordinary.

Guest: Yvadney Davis

Title: My activism is showing us thriving

Artists on playlist: Alfa Mist; H.E.R.; Robert Glasper; DeBarge; Leikeli47

Yvadney's links:

Styling - IG: @Yvadney and Twitter: @Yvadney

Mum's that Slay Blog and IG

Yvadney's Art - YvadneyDavisArt

Musingobingo - Website Instagram Twitter

Radio Show - Vibes and Stuff

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In this week’s episode of HUTL we’re talking about the idea of radical homelessness. Where do we find home? What does home mean? Is home a physical or geographical location, is it a state of being or is it both? And how does this idea of home manifest itself within the context of black queer masculinity?! To help me answer some of these complex questions, I’m joined by artist and filmmaker director, filmmaker, writer, broadcaster, and theatre practitioner Topher Campbell.

Topher Campbell’s practice spans broadcasting, theatre, performance, writing, experimental film and site-specific work. His focus has been on sexuality, masculinity, race, human rights, memoir and climate change. In 2000 he co-founded rukus! Federation a Black Queer arts collective with photographer Ajamu X. 

We talk about pro-blackness, pro-blackness that doesn’t mean anti-white, it’s not anti anything, it’s ‘pro’. It is as he and Ajamu X sought to do with rukus! Federation moving away from the idea of black people as victims and more about redefining and repositioning themselves publicly. 

We interrogate the idea of home, of belonging. For Topher, belonging doesn’t mean approval but rather ‘how you bear witness to your existence’. We talk about why he chose to walk through the streets of New York naked for his 2014 film Fetish. A kind of artistic response piece to the police murder of 12 year old Tamir Rice in 2014. Topher loves to walk through cities, this idea that something so mundane can be for the black body a surveilled, unsafe, violent place. How, as Topher explains, the Black body is never neutral.

Guest: Topher Campbell

Title: The Black Body is never neutral

Artists on playlist: Dudu Pukwana, Fela Kuti, Earthgang, Spillage Village

Support his film Encounters

Full Bio

IMDB page 

Social Media Links:

IG

Twitter

Links to Topher's work:

rukus! Federation

rukus! Federation Article

Topher Campbell and Billy Bragg article in The Independent

Sussex University Graduation Speech

Films:

The Homecoming

Invisible

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Jessica and Laurence, two African women hailing from East Africa and Benin in West Africa respectively were inspired by their own tattoo and scarification journeys to create space for other African women to do the same. Moving away from either the hyper sexualised or anthropological - think National Geographic tribal woman imagery - to discover the real and complex stories of these adorned women, because well, aren’t we all real and complex people? They are discovering as Jessica says ‘where tattooing and scarification sits in our varied African histories’.

We talk about the tattoos that have marked significant moments in their lives. We talk about the difference between tattoos and scarification. We talk about the importance of their grandmothers in their spiritual practices and traditions. We talk about pain, pain not as something we seek after but rather as an almost unavoidable component of bringing something forth - which is why we also talk about childbirth! 

We of course talk a lot about the body, about understanding the body, about being connected to the body, about agency over one’s body and how this agency is in fact an act of resistance. 

Guests: The Temple of Her Skin

Title: Our Embodiment

Music on playlist inspired from the African continent:

Sauti Sol (Kenya)

Zoe Modiga - Uthando (South Africa)

J.B Mpiana - Ndombolo (Congo)

Ria Boss (Ghana)

Sena Dagadu (Ghana)

Star Number One De Dakar- Waalo (Senegal)

Mpho Sebina & Pianochella (South Africa)

The Temple of Her Skin Links:

Website

IG

Trailer

Support their visual documentary project

Dance Divas on the BBC

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It is changing - in its 2020 music diversity report, industry-funded body UK Music shared some key findings:

The proportion of women in the industry is up from 45.3% in 2016 to 49.6% in 2020. Black Asian and other ethnic minorities in senior executive levels is up from 17.8% in 2018 to 19.9% in 2020. But that means only 1 in 5 people of colour are in senior exec positions. The number of older women in the industry between the ages of 45-64 drops from 38.7% in 2018 to 35% in 2020 we will still have a long way to go (although this is only UK data, I don’t know what it’s like in other parts of the world, especially the States) but things are slowly improving.

Personally or fortunately for me I have, for the most part, been around men who love and respect women, who don’t condescend, who don’t have a problem being lead by a woman, who take instruction, who are safe people to be around and who also advocate for you - my guest today writer, composer, producer, publisher, A&R manager Felix Howard is one of those people.

We talk about being in the music industry and for Felix, it’s vey much a family business, his siblings, his father and grandfather all having careers in the industry, as he calls it ‘a severe lack of imagination’. We talk about the role of an A&R manager, about changes in the music business, about different creative approaches when working with artists, artists like Amy Winehouse. We talk about the importance of diversity and representation across the board, about allyship and tokenism.

We talk about music so much that instead of having one or 2 songs on his playlist as I normally do with my guests, I created a special playlist, I’ve called it Felix Holds up the Ladder.

Guest: Felix Howard

Title: It’s all music and I love it all

Playlist: Felix Holds up the Ladder

Some unsigned/new acts Felix recommends:

Genevieve Dawson - Carry it slowly

Lady Blackbird

The Clocks

Zach Witness

Bio

UK Music Diversity Report 2020

Madonna - Open Your Heart

Mantronix - Got to have your love

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The UN High Commission for Refugees reported that at the end of 2020 82.4 million people worldwide were forcibly displaced. The UNHCR does break down this figure into people who are internally displaced, asylum seekers, refugees that come under their mandate but it’s a lot of people who aren’t in their own homes. Which gets us talking about the importance of shelter and the work Mark does in this area. 

We talk about the role of architecture and how much it impacts our daily lives. For example, did you know that architecture is responsible for 40% of the world’s CO2 emissions? Talking to Mark I realise that architecture isn’t really about buildings but about creating space that allows for the intangible things - care, safety, privacy, collaboration , our culturally specific needs - not just about bricks and mortar. And in it all we do talk about music!

Guest: Dr Mark Breeze

Title: Shelter is the essence of architecture

Music on playlist: Candy Walls by TR/ST

Bio

Links

Spatial Realities design research collaborative

Contact: hello@spatial-realities.com 

Shelter Without Shelter documentary: 

University of Cambridge Sustainable Shelter Group

Books:

Structures of Protection? Rethinking Refugee Shelter Book

Forms of the Cinematic: Architecture, Science, and the Arts Book

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I’ve changed this week’s programming (we were due to talk about music with A&R manager Felix Howard) because Wednesday 4th August marks the one year anniversary of the devastating port explosion in Beirut that killed 200 people, made about 300,000 people homeless and created about $15 billion worth of damage. This explosion took place in the backdrop of political and economic problems, a fire in the famous forests that hold the cedars of Lebanon, the Lebanese government placing a tax on the phone app - What’s App, unemployment at almost 60% and the Lebanese revolution on 17th October 2019.

So today we’re heading to Lebanon to talk about the situation in Beirut with founders of Art of Change Imane Assaf and Jason Camp an organisation that curates urban art to enrich communities, supporting and promoting local artists.

Guest: Art of Change

Title: It’s the wake up call for a real revolution

Artists of playlist: Professor Z and The Chemical Brothers

Links

Art of Change:

Website

Facebook

IG

Youtube

Ahla Fawda NGO:

Website

IG

Brady Black:

IG

Mural of explosion victims:

https://www.instagram.com/p/COc2hGzjRVO/

https://www.instagram.com/p/COc5Js-j4Lp/

https://www.instagram.com/p/COi0Sjmjy6o/

Professor Z:

IG

TD Studios

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Bio

Lemah trained at the Institute of Education where she obtained her PhD in the Sociology of Education ‘Racial structuring of Educational Marginality’.

She was a senior lecturer in sociology at St Mary’s University: Twickenham. She also served as a school governor. She has presented her work in the United States - at Temple University, Ohio State University and Brown - In the Service of Neglected People: Anna Julia Cooper, Ontology, and Education

She is currently working on a book - The Will to Know: Redemptive Tradition in the

Struggle for Education among People of African Descent in America and the

English-Speaking Caribbean

We talk about her journey into Sociology working with Dr Basil Bernstein considered one of the architects of the Sociology of Education. We talk about class as a component of social, cultural and economic capital and its impact on education and what my mother describes as the ‘commodification of education’.

We talk about Caribbean intellectuals and their contribution to shaping discussions around Britain’s colonial legacy in the UK and the Caribbean - C.L.R. James, Stuart Hall, educational psychologist Bernard Coard, Jessica Huntley, New Beacon books founder, John La Rose, Kamau Braithwaite. We talk James Baldwin, Toni Morrisson, W.E.B Dubois, Anna Julia Cooper. We talk about Windrush, about the complex relationships between minority groups. We talk about the controversial UK report on race by the Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities and we talk about music.

Guest: Dr Lemah Bonnick

Title: We talk about the exception as if it’s the rule

Artists on playlist: Marvin Gaye, Schubert, Ella Fitzgerald and Lionel Richie

Links:

Bernard Coard - How the West Indian Child is Made Educationally Sub-normal in the British School System: The Scandal of the Black Child in Schools in Britain 

Jessica Huntley

John La Rose, New Beacon Books

Kamau Brathwaite

Windrush - https://www.bl.uk/windrush

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43782241

Akala - Natives: Race & Class in the Ruins of Empire

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Bio

Michael Taylor is a historian of the British Empire and the British Isles in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. He graduated with a double first in history from the University of Cambridge, where he earned his PhD - and also won University Challenge. He has since been Lecturer in Modern British History at Balliol College, Oxford, and a Visiting Fellow at the British Library's Eccles Centre for American Studies.

We talk about the political landscape of Britain in the 1810s and 20s how the split within the Tory party and Catholic emancipation in Ireland were key contributing factors to abolition. We talk reparations, reparations not as financial recompense for slave labour (because that would be impossible to quantify and impossible to pay back), but actually reparations as a form of restorative justice.

It wasn’t until 2015 that the UK Treasury finished paying off the loan it raised in 1835 to recompense slaveholders. To put it into context the British government at the time spent 40% of its budget - £20 million pounds - which in today’s money when Michael was writing the book amounted to about £340billion pounds. And to really understand what this means for us now, the British tax payer and particularly Black Britons of Caribbean descent have essentially been ‘paying taxes to compensate those who enslaved [their] ancestors’. (p.300 of the book)

We talk about the role of theology and how it framed both pro slavery and abolitionist narratives. We talk about the interconnectedness and muddiness of these historical abolitionist figures - that a person could be an abolitionist and a racist at the same time. We talk about whether or not to remove statues of slave holders. And we still make time to talk about music!

Guest: Dr. Michael Taylor

Title: Abolition was not a fait accompli

Artists on playlist: The Cure; Beethoven & R.E.M

Twitter: @M_H_Taylor 

Buy the book

Quotes taken from the preface xv and pp 26 & 300

CARICOM - Website

Article in response to Treasury Tweets

Peter Fryer book, Staying Power

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We kick off the discussion with journalist and author of Sunday Times bestselling book Why I’m No longer to White people About Race Reni Eddo-Lodge

Reni’s 2017 book was birthed out of a 2014 blog post of the same name sharing her experiences of what I would call almost a kind of racial emotional fatigue - which we touch on in our interview. But as you can imagine Reni has been talking about this book for a couple years which she says at this point is very much nostalgic for her. So in fact we talk more about the controversial report on race that was commissioned by UK Prime minister Boris Johnson and written by the Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities. It was published around the time I interviewed Reni at the end of April to much public contestation and we get into that. 

We also talk about mental health and managing what Reni describes as soft liberal racism - as another friend mine said, navigating racism in this country is like running anti virus software all the time. We talk about how isolating racism can be and that writing this book which Reni likes to shorten to ‘Why I’m’ has actually created a connectedness and has given her a global community. We talk about navigating success, how it can be a mixed blessing, the challenge of finding the creative space to make new work and we talk about Reni’s eclectic taste in music! 

Guest: Reni Eddo-Lodge

Title: It was doomed from the start

Songs on playlist: Beatles, Blackbird, DMX, Ruffryders anthem; MNEK; Rupaul’s Dragrace UK; 21 seconds So Solid Crew

Website: https://renieddolodge.co.uk/

IG: @renieddolodge

Twitter: @renireni

Other references by Reni:

British Medical Journal response to Race Report

The Spectator Article

Mia Mingus - Website

IG: @mia.mingus

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We talk about the importance of seeing oneself reflected in culture and having teachers who create spaces for that exploration. We talk about Black women and their hair, about standards of beauty and representations of black women and beauty. We talk about the power of possibility having what’s possible reflected back at us. We talk about access, access to the arts, particularly with respect to her co-curation of the celebrated Soul of a Nation at the Tate Gallery. We talk about the arc of black consciousness from Negro, to Black, to African American - the Black Panther’s Stockley Carmichael becomes Kwame Ture - that being and becoming that Stuart Hall spoke about. We talk about the next generation of curators who are speaking to the world we’re in now. We talk about learning to rest, how rest is in fact an act of radical resistance and of course, we talk about music.

Bio

Instagram: @ZoeWhitley

Guest: Dr Zoe Whitley

Title: Who gets to be an artist?

Artists on playlist: Shameika Said, ft Fiona Apple; No Name, Rainforest; Lous and The Yakuza

Artist References

Harper’s Bazaar Article by Zoe Whitley

Vision and Justice Website

Denise Murelle - Posing Modernity The Black Model from Manet and Matisse to Today 

NAFAD - National Association of Fashion and Accessories Designers in the National Museum of African American History and Culture Smithsonian

Tiona Nekkia McClodden - Website

Tricia Hersey the Nap ministry - Website

Joy Gregory - Autoportrait

Website

Lubaina Himid - Cutting up the Guardian

Faith Ringgold’s Children’s books

Website

Allison Glenn - https://www.promisewitnessremembrance.org/

Discussion

Website

Meg Onli - Art for Philadelphia

Instagram

Languid Hands - Website

B.O.S.S - Instagram

Turner Prize Shortlist

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My guest today is serial entrepreneur, investor, tech executive, CEO and Founding Member of Impact X Capital Partners,  Eric Collins. 

Bio

London-based Eric is a serial entrepreneur, investor and technology executive who has spent a career building the value of digital companies through innovative strategies.

He has done this at public and private companies including AOL, TimeWarner, Tegic/Nuance Communications, MobilePosse, SwiftKey/Microsoft and most recently, Touch Surgery, where he was COO.

In 2018, Eric was part of a prominent group of black European and US serial entrepreneurs, institutional investors, investment bankers, corporate leaders and entertainers to found Impact X Capital Partners.

The company is a double bottom-line venture capital firm that invests in under-represented innovators in Europe, focusing on growth stage companies in three distinct sectors: digital and technology, health, education and lifestyle; and media and entertainment.

Eric is also a sought-after board member and advisor in the technology space.  He sits on the board of companies in San Francisco and London, including Tech Nation, and acts as an advisor to companies in the US, India and the UK.

He supports civic activities. In London, he serves on the board of Autograph ABP and Southwark Cathedral’s Council and, in the US, he has been a board member of Washington Performing Arts.

He also donates time and resources to many other contemporary causes, including the Smithsonian Institute’s Museum of African-American History and Culture; The National Museum of African Art; Toronto’s Power Plant Gallery; and Philomena’s Chorus (a programme that helps under-represented voices, especially young, black British women, produce films).

President Obama appointed Eric to the Small Business Administration’s Council on Underserved Communities and as an evaluator for White House Fellow applicants.

Eric holds degrees from Princeton University and Harvard Law School.

In November 2018, The Financial Times named him among the UK’s top 100 BAME leaders in technology. In 2019 and 2020 he was voted one of the most influential black people in Britain on the Powerlist.

Eric is the host of new Channel 4 business reality show, The Money Maker, the format of which is based on long running CNBC series The Profit.

Guest: Eric Collins

Title: We don't need permission 

Music on Playlist: Your Arms are too short to box with God by Vinnette Carroll and The Me Nobody Knows by Gary William Friedman

Website: Impact X

The Money Maker Website on Channel 4

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In the few months between the end of season 2 and the start of season 3 it seems the world isn’t calming down any time soon - in fact in many ways, it feels more intense and more far-reaching. We’ve had the conviction of Derek Chauvin for the murder of George Floyd, which doesn’t really feel like a victory and more like a pyrrhic victory - you know where no-one really wins. All around the world - Chile, Colombia, Ethiopia, Belarus, the Israel-Palestine conflict, a surge in Asian hate crimes, the list goes on - we can’t avoid it and I don’t want to. What we’re going to do this season, is to try and talk about it - we’re going to talk about justice, about social change, anti-racism, anti-discrimination with people who know these areas really well and because this is a creative podcast, we’re going to talk about how creativity and the arts speaks to justice.

If you listened to last season’s interview with Japanese artist Makoto Fujimura, you will have heard him talk about the art of Kintsugi - that is the art of mending to make new. A bowl or a vessel is brought with all its broken pieces, those pieces are examined and then the pieces are put together with Japanese gold lacquer - we don’t fix, or hide the cracks, instead we accentuate their beauty - in the hope that what we are left with is a vessel that’s more beautiful than before. But before we mend, we examine. So that’s what I’m going to try and do this season - we’re going to examine some of these broken ‘societal’ pieces, with the hopes of finding beauty in the brokenness. 

And as always, I’m interviewing some really interesting creatives from around the world from diverse disciplines - we’ll be talking about race and racism with writers, historians and academics, about blackness and queerness, about sheltering displaced and migrant people and how architects help with that, we’ll be talking about African feminism through tattoos and scarification, we’ll be talking about diversity in business and tech, not asking for a seat at the table but making our own. We’ll be talking about education and class in the UK, about art and art curation, about fashion, diversity in the music industry, we’ll be talking about environmental awareness through transcribing bird and animal song. We’ll be talking about beauty and justice and as always we’ll be talking about music!

One of the reasons Airbnb is sponsoring this series is to support these conversations, so as the season progresses I’ll also be sharing some of the actions Airbnb has been taking around anti racism, anti discrimination and social change so stay tuned for that. I’m really looking forward to this season, I’ll see you for our first episode on Wednesday 23rd June!

Airbnb Report on Travel

Airbnb Summarised Report

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There is a great line in the Jane Campion film Bright Star about the English poet John Keats where his friend, writer Charles Brown says to Keats’ love interest Fanny Brawne, something along the lines of, ‘please don’t disturb us if you see us lying on the grass staring into space, we’re actually working’. That line resonated so much with me because so many of my ideas come from ‘lying on the grass, staring into space!’ This episode is about not only giving yourself permission to do just that, it’s also about why it’s so important to have the space to do so!

All over the world, the arts is used to give voice to our cultural, political and social histories, some are celebrated (in the Middle East, for example, poets are considered to be like rock stars, they fill stadiums) some are loathed, some are ignored, some are even killed, many are lauded posthumously. Yet if we understand the importance of art in a society that seeks flourishing over commodity, connection over capital then art and its artists become a bridge. As my guest from last week Shruti Kumar said, artists are ‘orators of our history.’

So thank you to all the fabulous guests who have shared their processes with us this season - it has been a real art imitating life, imitating art for me! And a huge thank you to Suzan Kibirge who has been managing all the social media and analytics but mostly to you all for listening. Until next time!

Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs

Eliud Kipchoge running 26.2 in under 2hrs

Guest: Yours truly! @matshidisomusic

Title: Reflections - Valuing the arts, valuing ourselves

Music I’m listening to: Midnight Mischief, Jordan Rakei; Bach Motets by The Pygmalion Ensemble with Raphael Pichon; my Spotify playlist - 'Songs for roadtrips and daydreams'

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We talk about the future of the musical landscape in these pandemic and post-pandemic times and our mutual love of Quincy Jones.

This episode was recorded just before Christmas, so you’re not going to hear any references to some of the political changes that have taken place in the States like the insurrection one Capitol Hill or the inauguration of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.

Guest Bio

Shruti is a composer/producer based in LA. Her work has spanned film/tv, pop, and concert worlds and she often finds herself in projects that mix genres and experiences. Her work has been used by/for The National Geographic, NPR, The United Nations, The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, FOX India, A24, The 2016 Summer Olympics, UNICEF, and The Nederlander Organization. She spent the majority of the past year in London doing a residency with Spitfire Audio as well as producing out of Strongroom Studios in Shoreditch working with other artists as well as weaving together several years of collected sounds from her travels around the world for her upcoming album "Nodding Terms". She is also a Dublab radio host, "Let's Shake On It” and founder of Sound Travels engaging with culture & arts advocacy as well as aiming to level the musical playing field.

Guest: Shruti Kumar

Title: All the doors are viable if you keep an open mind about the music you’re creating 

Music by Shruti: Knocked for Six, Feels Good Instrumental and Peel Away

Albums on Playlist: Nicholas Britell - If Beale St Could Talk, Bach - Goldberg Variations, Glenn Gould, Thundercat - It Is What It Is, Fiona Apple - Fetch the Bolt Cutters

Website: https://www.shrutikumar.com/

IG: @tamingoftheshruti

Let’s Shake on It, Website: https://www.dublab.com/shows/lets-shake-on-it

IG: @lets_shake_on_it

Sound Travels website: https://soundcantravel.com/ 

IG: @soundcantravel

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And in the realm of sustainability and renewable materials in architecture and design there’s my guest today, Elora Hardy who is pushing the realms of possibility with bamboo.

I first learnt about Elora Hardy and the work she does with design and architecture firm she founded Ibuku on Apple TV series Home - these breathtaking, otherworldly cities made entirely out of bamboo. 

Born in Toronto, Canada but grew up in Bali, Elora has a background in Fine Art and used to work for fashion designer Donna Karen. We talk about how not having any formal architectural training actually helped Elora to work outside the traditional confines of architecture, yet with a respect for craft, study and skill and how this helped to push the envelope of what’s possible in architectural design.

We talk about the qualities of bamboo, bamboo as a new form of renewable material and replacement for fossil fuels. We talk about the process that goes in to designing these other worldly structures in the lush Balinese landscape, about serving materials and the surrounding environment rather than using these materials to serve us. We talk about shelter and space and our interconnectedness with nature and each other. We also talk about her 5 year old son’s love of loud instrumental rock music! 

Guest: Elora Hardy 

Title: It’s not going to look the way people imagine because it hasn’t been imagined yet

Artists on playlist: Led Zeppelin, Daft Punk, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Steve Vai

Ibuku Bali Website: https://ibuku.com/ 

IG: @ibukubali

Apple TV Home Trailer - https://youtu.be/l2n5DcNXJ8Y

BambooU website: https://www.bamboou.com/

IG: @bambooubali

Green School Bali website: https://www.greenschool.org/bali

IG: @greenschoolbali

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I’ve brought in some formidable women to talk about these issues and made a point of including not just artists but people who work in what I call the administrative side of the industry - law, label management etc. So, let me introduce you to my guests:

• Producer, songwriter, composer and singer, Alev Lenz
• Music and media lawyer, Honey Onile-Ere
• Creative business consultant, Sam Campbell
• Composer/Producer, Shruti Kumar

We talk about how to navigate the vastly complex and amorphous world of the music industry and how to do it as women and also women of colour. We talk about how to self advocate, how to negotiate, how knowing your value has a direct impact on the price you place on your work. We talk about allies and creating strong networks. We talk about the role that art generally and music more specifically plays in society - how do we quantify the value of music, not the person making the music but the music itself? We talk about the importance of protecting and therefore valuing the arts at a governmental level, how this impacts the value we place on artists and how all of this connects to money.

Guests: Alev Lenz, Honey Onile-Ere, Sam Campbell & Shruti Kumar

Title: Money Talks - Navigating the Music Industry

Guest bios:

Alev Lenz

Alev Lenz is a German-Turkish producer, songwriter, composer and singer. Alev released her first album in 2009 Storytelling Piano Playing Fräulein, her sophomore record Two-Headed Girl came out in 2016 and her latest album 3 came out at the end of 2019. Her music has featured on critically acclaimed TV shows, Netflix series Dark, Black Mirror and the third season of The Rain. Alev has been working in close collaboration with Anoushka Shankar, featuring on her Grammy-nominated album ‘Land of Gold’ as well as writing and co-producing for Anoushka Shankar's EP 'Love Letters' which culminated in a Grammy-nomination. Alev has also worked in close collaboration with Spitfire Audio creating an interactive sound library.

Website: https://www.alevlenz.com/

IG: @alev_lenz

Honey Onile-Ere

Honey is a qualified lawyer, with several years of music and media legal and business affairs experience. Honey was Head of Legal & Business Affairs at Warner/Chappell Music Publishing for 10 years, after which she was Director of Legal & Business Affairs at BMG Rights Management. Prior to taking up her role at AMRA, Honey worked as a freelance Business Affairs consultant, working with a wide range of media businesses, from major labels / publishers (such as Universal Music and what was then EMI Records) to independents, including Imagem Music (now Concord) and Perfect Songs. Honey has also consulted for a range of businesses focused on the development of the music business in emerging territories, with a particular emphasis on West Africa, working with both labels and publishers, as well as collecting societies in the region.

Website: https://www.amra.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/honey-onile-ere-57973135/

Sam Campbell

Sam is a creative business consultant, consultant music publishing manager and consultant label manager with an MBA from Imperial College Business School. With over 25 years music industry experience, Sam creates monetisation models for independent artists and SMEs. She also develops and structures revenue streams for creative individuals.

Website: https://www.cdasoundldn.com/

Instagram: @cdastylelondon

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sam-campbell-mba-8552bb26

Shruti Kumar

Shruti is a musician, composer/producer based in LA. Her work has spanned film/tv, pop, and concert worlds and she often finds herself in projects that mix genres and experiences. Her work has been used by/for The National Geographic, NPR, The United Nations, The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, FOX India, A24, The 2016 Summer Olympics, UNICEF, and The Nederlander Organization. She spent the majority of the past year in London doing a residency with Spitfire Audio as well as producing out of Strongroom Studios in Shoreditch working with other artists as well as weaving together several years of collected sounds from her travels around the world for her upcoming album "Nodding Terms". She is also a Dublab radio host, "Let's Shake On It” and founder of Sound Travels engaging with culture & arts advocacy as well as aiming to level the musical playing field.

Website: https://www.shrutikumar.com/

IG: @tamingoftheshruti

Radio show, Let’s Shake on It: Website: https://www.dublab.com/shows/lets-shake-on-it & IG: @lets_shake_on_it

Sound Travels: Website: https://soundcantravel.com/ IG: @soundcantravel

Reports:

UK Music

PRS

Billboard

Music Week/Sunday Times Rich List

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I met Daley soon after he got signed and became his piano teacher. I was fortunate enough to hear some of his songs before they were released. Since then he has gone on to record 3 full length albums, worked with Pharell, sung with the likes of Jessie J, Marsha Ambrosius of the band Floetry, Jill Scott, Maxwell, Angie Stone and as I mentioned the legend that is Stevie Wonder.

We talk about Daley’s journey into music, the UK music industry’s approach to RnB & Soul artists compared to the States, about signing to a major label. We talk about hindsight, about finding your voice. We talk about career highlights, being creative in a pandemic and trusting your instincts even if it goes against the dominant voices in the room.

Guest: Daley 

Title: Don’t second guess your gut feeling

Featured songs by Daley:

Slow Burn

Those Who Wait

Alone Together ft. Marsha Ambrosius

Try (The Line) ft. Bad Fruit 

Music on Daley’s playlist: Phantom Thread (original motion picture soundtrack) - Jonny Greenwood

Roisin Machine - Roisin Murphy

Music I mention:

If Beale Street Could Talk (original motion picture score) - Nicholas Britell

A Room with a View (motion picture soundtrack) - Richard Robbins

Lieder ohne Worte (songs without words) Felix Mendelssohn - Daniel Barenboim

Website: https://www.daley.tv/

Instagram:@daley

Youtube: @daleyofficial

Twitter: @daleymusic

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She is extremely pragmatic and has a gift for taking bigs ideas and knowing how to practically implement them - I run a lot ideas past her. Hopefully you’ll see what I mean during the course of our discussion. We come from very different worlds but I strongly believe in working with people and having friends who hold similar values but very different perspectives, if done right I think they actually help take you further than if you’re only interacting with people with similar thinking.

And here are the ‘Principles’ for building creative community that we speak about:

1. What are you trying to building, knowing your why
2. Valuing the people you work with
3. Be kind to people
4. Paying it forward
5. Principle of reciprocity
6. Learning when and when not to compromise 
7. Finding your tribe/your community 
8. Just do it!

Guest: Ramona Harris

Title: Building Creative Community - Establishing value systems with Ramona Harris

Links to some of the things we refer to:

Book - Impact Capital by Sir Ronald Cohen

Film - Brooklyn Boheme

Podcast episode about my friend Ian Toothill who inspired principle No. 8, Just do it!

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We talk about the work he does with the organisation he founded I am Culture Care, creating a space where culture isn’t fought over but rather nurtured like a garden. We talk about hearing the music in art, about art as sound. About finding genesis moments in art, creating out of darkness, out of suffering. We talk about creating communal tables that to quote Mako, ‘[e]nduring art cannot be created without a covenantal community’. We talk about the Japanese art of Kintsugi - the art of mending to make new, finding beauty in brokenness.

Guest: Makoto Fujimura

Title: Mending to make new - the Japanese art of Kintsugi

Artist on playlist: Susie Ibarra

Websites

https://www.makotofujimura.com/

https://iamculturecare.com/fujimura-institute

https://iamculturecare.com/ 

Instagram: @iamfujimura

Kintsugi Instagram: @academykintsugi/

Collaborations

Quartets - artistic response to T.S. Elliot’s 4 Quartets 

New York Times Op ed piece

Writing - https://www.makotofujimura.com/writings/art-love-and-beauty-introduction

https://www.makotofujimura.com/writings/art-love-and-beauty-on-art-lecture-1 

Culture Care Podcast

Culture Care book

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Pura Fé (meaning ‘pure faith’) is a musician, songwriter and activist originally from North Carolina but raised in New York. She is in many ways the embodiment of America’s rich and complex ancestral history - with her Native American Tuscarora Indian, African American (specifically Yoruba and Ebo), North Carolinian, Scottish, Puerto Rican roots - all of which is also expressed in her music.

We talk about growing up in a family with 8 generations of singing sisters who sang opera, a mother who sang with the likes of Duke Ellington, how piano legend Thelonius Monk is also a relation, about falling asleep in all night church services where jazz trumpet legend Miles Davis among many others would come to play.

We talk about her musical education at Lincoln Square Academy in New York and why Pura Fé chose not to sign with Sony and label exec Tommy Mottola (the person who signed and married Mariah Carey) or any major record label for that matter. We talk about singing with Anita Baker about singing at an event with Lena Horne in the audience.

We talk about what is American music and particularly the story of Native American people and their music.

Guest: Pura Fé

Title: I think I was born with a fist in the air

Songs all by Pura Fé:

• Great Grandpah’s Banjo from the album Full Moon Rising
• Mahk Jchi from the Ulali project band
• My People My Land Pt.2 from the album Hold the Rain
• Red, Black on Blues from the album Full Moon Rising
• My People my Land Pt 1 from the album Hold the Rain
• Let Heaven Show from the album Hold the Rain

Website: https://www.purafe.com

Instagram: @pura.fe.9

Trailer of RUMBLE: The Indians That Rocked The World - https://youtu.be/hovJUoyxulc

Clip on the history of the banjo with Rhiannon Giddens - https://youtu.be/DkGSns7-_e0

Artist on her playlist: James Brown

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Welcome back to the second and final part of my conversation with South African photographer Leeroy Jason. If you haven’t listened to part 1 yet it’s worth tuning in so you get a sense of Leeroy, his work, his values and how we ended up having our meandering conversation - meandering, not in the sense of being directionless more in the sense of the kind of conversations you have with someone when you go for a long walk, or at a long dinner when wine is flowing moving from subject to subject. 

I’ve also shamelessly added my own music in this episode but I promise, there is a context to it! In part 1 I tried to get Leeroy to tell me the music he’s listening to, I did the same in this episode but to be honest I never did manage to pin him down!

Guest: Leeroy Jason

Title: The more honest you are as an artist the more people relate to that

Artist on playlist: SZA, Hit Different

Link to Singing dog

Song by Matshidiso: Quiet Love

Mental Health Charities & Organisations

South Africa

https://genderjustice.org.za/

http://www.sadag.org/

The Carroll Shaw Memorial Centre (rehabilitation for abused men) website is down but there is an email: info@csmc.org.za & tel: 011 416 6080

I asked a South African psychotherapist friend who studied and trained for many years in South Africa she advised that for those who are on medical aid, you may be able to apply for up to 15 therapy sessions.

UK

Therapy for men

https://www.thecalmzone.net/

https://www.wearehumen.org/

Therapy for men in London

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/counselling/mens-issues/eng/london

In South London

https://www.slam.nhs.uk/about-us/who-we-are/partnership-working/maudsley-charity/

Black, African & Asian mental health charity

https://www.baatn.org.uk

Black men's mental health for 16-30yr olds

https://www.hoodmentality.co/

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If you’ve been listening to this podcast at all you’ll hear me talk a lot about South Africa and you’ll also know that I’m half South African. I love South Africa it is home for me as much as London is my home - yet I feel like I fully belong and I’m a foreigner all at once. I often say South Africa is a place of extremes, the good things are incredible and the bad things are terrible and it seems to me that this is the place South Africa exists, beautiful and harrowing, inspiring and exasperating. When I think about my guest today, photographer Leeroy Jason, his work so well encapsulates these tensions - beautiful painful, frightening yet you can't help but stare…an image comes to mind of a man being sprayed in the face with teargas - the image is brutal yet Leeroy captures it in such a way that the movement in the picture gives it an elegance that makes it feel like a dance.

Leeroy started taking pictures at the age of 11. With a famous war photographer father who covered the apartheid struggle, the Rwandan genocide and the war in Kosovo (he’s also responsible for that iconic picture of Lady Diana shaking hands with Nelson Mandela) the realities of war and the effects of PTSD turned Leeroy temporarily away from a career in photography but it would seem the pull was too strong to stay away but I’ll let him tell you about that himself.

Leeroy has a way of giving voice to ideas in a way I had not previously considered and then using photography to articulate those ideas. Days after our discussion I found myself revisiting some of things he said. Leeroy’s photography challenges, it provokes, it causes you to question, it is art, it’s also journalistic, he has a way of merging those extremes I was telling you about. We recorded this episode in September and at the time of airing, South Africa still has the highest rates of rape in the world (according to a report by the South African Medical research council 25% of SA men have admitted to raping a women and of that 25% nearly half said they have raped more than 1 woman) the numbers are disturbing especially when we know that a lot of rapes go unreported and that these aren’t numbers they are real people - Leeroy’s work seeks to address the issues around gender based violence or GBV not only from the perspective of South African women to quote Leeroy ‘taking their power back’ but he also challenges men, African men, South African men (starting with himself) to look at their own behaviour, to reconsider their understanding of their masculinity of African masculinity and sexuality and he does so with his photography.

Leeroy was open, honest, vulnerable, he got us talking about things I didn’t expect. And it’s why I decided to divide this conversation into 2 parts. I tried to end the conversation like I always do, talking about music, about the music he was listening to, but our conversation, steered by Leeroy took a different turn and we kind of wandered down an unexpected creative road so that Leeroy ended up interviewing me - as I said, not what I expected! You’ll have to tune in to part 2 to listen to that- but for this episode know that we talk about the police and citizen responses to Covid-19, Leeroy’s journey into photography, the work he explores in what is known as ‘the fall’ generation and his photography series Everything must fall. We talk about trauma, about violence about masculine identity and sexuality and we try to talk about music!

Guest: Leeroy Jason

Title: Everything Must Fall

Instagram: @darealclickclak

Mental Health Charities & Organisations

South Africa

https://genderjustice.org.za/

http://www.sadag.org/

The Carroll Shaw Memorial Centre (rehabilitation for abused men) website is down but there is an email: info@csmc.org.za & tel: 011 416 6080

I asked a South African psychotherapist friend who studied and trained for many years in South Africa she advised that for those who are on medical aid, you may be able to apply for up to 15 therapy sessions.

UK therapy for men

https://www.thecalmzone.net/

https://www.wearehumen.org/

Therapy for men in London

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/counselling/mens-issues/eng/london

In South London

https://www.slam.nhs.uk/about-us/who-we-are/partnership-working/maudsley-charity/

Black, African & Asian mental health charity

https://www.baatn.org.uk

Black men's mental health for 16-30yr olds

https://www.hoodmentality.co/

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We talk about Pierre’s journey from a student of physics and chemistry in Dakar to the kitchens of New York. We talk about the politics of food; food justice and food deserts. We talk about sustainability, how lifestyle desires of people in the West can negatively impact farmers across the world. We talk about the far-reaching disruptive effects of colonialism on farming so that crops from as far afield as Vietnam have impacted the Senegalese diet.

We talk about how Pierre’s cultural heritage has shaped his work and what he values. And we attempt to settle the long-standing argument of which country in West Africa makes the best jollof rice, hint - it’s not Nigeria and it’s not Ghana! And we of course talk about music.

Guest: Chef Pierre Thiam

Title: The best way to transcend borders is through food

Links:

Chef Thiam’s website & IG

Yolélé Foods website & IG

Teranga website & IG

Report on Future 50 Foods

Artists of playlist: Randy Weston, A Tribe Called Quest, Cheikh Lô

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I was introduced to Beatie’s work at her retrospective at London’s Victoria and Albert museum and to say I was blown away is an understatement. Beatie isn’t solely a musician, she’s a tech innovator, a scientist, an artist - she’s sent her music into space, played in the quietist room on earth, she’s contributed to pioneering Dementia research, she’s the first person to use live 360 VR in her music, created an environmental protest piece using 800,000 yrs of Nasa data the list goes on, if I were to tell you all of it it would sound like I’m reeling off an impressive CV. Yet what I find more impressive isn’t actually what she’s achieved (albeit incredible) it’s her curiosity and what I would call a very simple yet deeply rooted conviction about the power of music - it’s those questions that I was telling you about. And it’s from that questioning that Beatie has innovated, challenged, pioneered and for people like me, really inspired. 

We talk about the ‘why’ of music, its importance, its value, its ability to heal, to connect us, what Beatie calls ‘music as medicine’ and the conditions needed to ensure that it (again to quote Beatie) ‘imprints’. 

Guest: Beatie Wolfe

Title: Music keeps us alive inside

Website: https://beatiewolfe.com/

IG - @beatiewolfe

Songs: Take me home, From Green to Red from the album Montagu Square

Little Moth from the album Raw Space all by Beatie Wolfe

Postcards for democracy with composer Mark Mothersbaugh

IG: @postcardsfordemocracy

Film: Orange Juice for the Ears

Podcast: Orange Juice for the Ears

Artist on playlist: songwriter Allee Willis - September and Boogie Wonderland - Earth Wind and Fire; Friends theme tune I’ll be there for you

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Heidi has toured the world opening for artists such as Erykah Badu; performed at Montreux Jazz festival for Quincy Jones; performed at many of the world’s major festivals and on the finest stages including Cape Town Jazz Festival, London’s Royal Albert Hall, Glastonbury, the Sydney Opera House, Coachella, Central Park Summerstage in New York, North Sea Jazz & Blue Note Jazz Festivals. She’s performed and/or recorded with some incredible artists, Bobby Mcferrin, Thundercat, Isaac Hayes, Moses Sumney, Miguel Attwood Ferguson, Chick Korea, Hermeto Pascoal and some of the UK’s most established artists on the scene (that seen I was telling you about) Soweto Kinch, Tawiah, Roots Manuva, Ty, Terry Walker to name a few.

We talk about our love of making lists and reaching musical milestones that seem to elude us. This was a really honest conversation about what it’s like being a working musician, about lifelong learning, about being too hard on yourself at times because I think artists who are really passionate about what they do live, to quote Heidi in ‘devotion to the art’.

You’ll hear a lot of laughter and a lot of reminiscing and hopefully you’ll not only hear a beautiful voice but a generous, open and deep-thinking person.

Guest: Heidi Vogel

Title: I’m on a journey of who I want to become as a musician

IG: @heidilevo

Heidi’s songs from her album 'Turn up the Quiet': 

Medo De Amar

Dindi (feat. Austin Peralta)

Modinha

Black Narcissus

Artists on playlist: Baby Rose, Thundercat, H.E.R, Summer Walker

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With a background in international relations and an MA in Human Rights, Lisa’s love of art and curation was sparked while at university - it’s an intimate story, one that I’ll leave her to share in her own words.

We talk about identity, belonging, the importance of representation, of seeing oneself in the world around us, not just in our homes but in culture. We talk about London, about Britishness about Black Britishness. We talk about being part of a London ‘scene’ and as always we talk about music.

Guest: Lisa Anderson

Title: I’ve always sought art that I could see myself in

Website: https://lisaandersonartadvisory.com/

Black British Art Instagram: @blackbritishart

Lisa Anderson Art Advisory Instagram: @lisaandersonaa

Article link

Spotify: Broken Beat Playlist

Artists Lisa loves:

Adelaide Damoah - Website & IG

Enam Gbewonyo - Website & IG

Irvin Pascal - Website & IG

Rachel Jones - Website

Jadé Fadojutimi - Website & IG

Shannon Bono - Website & IG

Michaela Yearwood-Dan - Website & IG

Artists on Lisa's playlist:

The Clark Sisters

Hezekiah Walker

Christian Scott

Blue Lab Beats

Beyonce

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Episode 1, Season 2 out on Friday 16th October 2020!

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Susan Rogers started off as a studio maintenance technician for Crosby Stills & Nash in Hollywood, she responded to an advert looking for a technician for Prince and got the job. I won’t spoil the story, I’ll let her tell you herself about her time working with Prince, but needless to say it was life changing. She then went on to engineer and produce for a diverse roster of artists including David Byrne, Bare Naked Ladies, The Jacksons, Tevin Campbell, Paul Westerberg, Geggy Tah and Tricky.

Susan then moved into neuroscience and has a doctorate in psychology from McGill University in the States, where she studied music cognition and psychoacoustics. She’s now a professor at Berklee in Boston and is the director of the Berklee Music Perception and Cognition Laboratory. She’s currently writing a book and has completed a research paper about how we listen and respond to music and the rewards we get from it. Susan Rogers also launched along with Matthew McArthur Boston's first nonprofit recording studio, ‘The Record Company’, that offers low-cost recording facilities and free music technology teaching to musicians and teens.

We talk about the process of making albums, about the science and artistry of engineering, the difference between analog tape and modern music-making, about how our brains and bodies respond to music, why some people respond to one form of rhythm over another. We talk about artists that inspire us and of course we talk all things Prince!

Guest: Dr Susan Rogers

Title: There’s a difference between knowing what you want and knowing who you are

Website: https://www.berklee.edu/people/susan-rogers

Talks on Youtube:

https://youtu.be/EgBZHIUUn8Q

https://youtu.be/JXcewgUup9M

https://youtu.be/8ON0nQCQF08

Music/producers/studios on playlist: Smokestack Lightnin’ from the album Moanin’ in the Moonlight by Howlin’ Wolf, Rick Hall from Muscle Shoals records, Sam Phillips from Sun Studios, Chess Records

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We met through another musician Mr Hudson (the Mr Hudson who’s collabed with Jay Z and Kanye West on Supernova & Forever Young). We started chatting about music as musicians do, kept in touch via Instagram, Sarah moved to LA (which you’ll hear more about in our conversation) and now we’re here and today’s interview.

Sarah was a child prodigy, she started playing the piano at 3, picked up the violin and was composing violin sonatas at the age of 8! We don’t have the audio, but I’ve put a picture of the sonata manuscript in my Instagram post so you can see how prodigious she was - at 8, I was playing chopsticks!

She was performing solo piano concertos at the Royal College of Music in Manchester, leading youth orchestras as a violinist, she won young composer of the year at 9 and young musician of the year at 11. She studied classical piano and film composition at The Royal Academy of Music in London and it was there that she got into contemporary music.

Sarah has worked as a live musical director & producer for Kylie Minogue. For those who aren’t from the UK or Australia, Kylie Minogue is like a national treasure for us - it’s a big deal! She’s musical directed for Nicole Scherzinger from the Pussy Cat dolls, UK pop band Little Mix and French artist Christophe Willem amongst others. She also works as a songwriter and producer, has had 12 top 10 record releases, 2 gold and 1 platinum album. She recently moved to LA to focus on film and TV composition.

Sarah wears many hats, she’s an engineer and built her own music studio from scratch. We talk about her foundation in classical music and how she draws upon it when writing mainstream pop music. The differences between live arena production vs studio album production and our mutual love of Justin Bieber! We talk about the importance of understanding the administrative and legal side of the music industry and knowing your worth not just as a musician, but as a female musician.

Guest: Sarah deCourcy

Title: That moment changed how I could output my creativity

Website: https://www.sarahdecourcy.com/

IG: @Sarahdecourcydc

Music Excerpts: ‘Terminus Elite’ and ‘Barren Lands’ score cues by Sarah deCourcy & Kylie Minogue’s live show 'Spinning Around'

To see image of solo violin sonata written when Sarah was 8 go to IG post here

Albums on playlist: Nick Cave & Warren Ellis The Proposition, Sleep by Max Richter, Mica Levi Under the Skin

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With a degree in History of Art, Lucy started out at Mute Records during her gap year Mute records represent the likes of Nick Cave, New Order, Depeche Mode, and Goldfrapp. She then moved to Warner Classics for six years before leaving to manage acclaimed composer Michael Nyman - he wrote the music for the Oscar winning film The Piano & The 2018 Alexander McQueen documentary amongst many others. She was at music publishing company Music Sales for 10 years overseeing an extraordinary roster of film composers including Gabriel Yared (Cold Mountain,The English Patient), Ludovico Einaudi, Philip Glass, Nico Muhly (The Reader), Hildur Guðnadóttir (the woman who won the Oscar and every award going this year for her scoring of Joker). This year Lucy is starting a new venture with the launch of her own music publishing company, Bright Notion Music.

Lucy has music supervised some of the most critically-acclaimed British films of recent years: Samantha Morton’s directorial debut The Unloved, Lynne Ramsey’s The Swimmer, John Maclean’s Slow West, Justin Kurzel’s Assassin’s Creed, Michael Almereyda’s Marjorie Prime and Sean Durkin’s The Nest starring Jude Law and Carrie Coon which premiered at Sundance Film Festival 2020. Her work in television is equally renowned including Southcliffe, McMafia and Shane Meadows’s This is England ‘90 and The Virtues. She is currently working on TV drama Little Birds for Sky Atlantic and LIFE for BBC One (jointly with Catherine Grieves).

We talk about her journey into music supervision, what inspires her, the role of a composer within the context of film, the under-representation of female composers in the film industry, and the lessons learned along the way.

Guest: Lucy Bright

Title: The artist is the film director and you are there to serve their vision

Instagram: @lightlightbright

Albums/Artists on playlist: Bob Dylan Oh Mercy, Leonard Cohen, Memories from the album Death of a Ladies’ Man and Rob Simonsen Reveries

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I’m not usually a fan of reeling off people’s accomplishments, it can be counter productive particularly as I want to move away from attaching personal value to someone's qualifications or achievements, you know this idea that you have more value if you have the right education or come from the right background and less if you don’t fulfil this constructed criteria. But in light of what we’re going to talk about today, I think knowing a little bit about the background of today’s guest will help frame some of the complex issues we discuss.

So, with that in mind, let me tell you about Jessica Horn. An alumna of Smith College (the alma mater of Gloria Steinem, Sylvia Plath and Otelia Cromwell, the first black woman to receive a doctorate from Yale) Jessica is a women’s rights/gender equality expert, writer, academic, activist and poet. She is Director of Programmes at the African Women's Development Fund, has visited 54 countries, lived in 8 on 4 different continents, including Fiji, Lesotho, Pakistan and the States amongst others. She’s a polymath - I know we bandy that word about a lot these days, but hidden in the meaning, namely ‘someone who knows a lot about many different subjects’ is a curiosity. And underneath that curiosity is a deep compassion and I believe that it is that compassion that drives her desire for justice and fairness for people, for women, for African women.

We talk about activism, African feminism, poetry, motherhood, her love of beauty and how it impacts her need to create and of course, we talk about music.

Guest: Jessica Horn

Title: Re-membering the body, remembering delight

Website: http://www.stillsherises.com/

Twitter: @stillSHErises   

Poetry: Speaking in Tongues can be found in poetry anthology, The Mouthmark Book of Poetry

On Tattoos & scarification: https://www.thetempleofherskin.com/

Artists on her playlist: Oliver Nelson and Ria Boss

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I was speaking with an artist friend of mine about our need to be inspired, it’s the engine of our creativity. And because of that I like to create moments or find beauty in moments, almost like a well of memory to draw from. And I have some favourite moments: London in the summertime, spending all afternoon in the park with friends, cycling home around 930pm the sky a velvety inky indigo, the breeze rushing passed my ears. The light in Johannesburg before midday, it’s a crystalline light, as if to remind you that anything is possible. Coffee first thing in the morning, quiet with my thoughts, being around children who remind me to keep it simple and look for the wonder.

What’s any of this got to do with today’s interview you may ask? Well, everything. Speaking to South African photographer and director Justice Mukheli was for me another one of those moments, of creating memory.

I first fell upon Justice’s work about 7 years ago through his blog ‘I see a different you’ a site dedicated to showing South African youth style through the lens of the people who wore the clothes, a way of reframing a traditional South African narrative. We talk about his journey into photography and directing, about his beautiful, art-filled richly creative childhood, about honouring the legacy of those who paved the way during the apartheid struggle, furthering the next generation of artists, and to put it in Justice’s words, art as a way to ‘archive emotion’.

As a songwriter, I write from the images I see in my mind until the words and the images weave in and out of each other. Many times during this interview Justice describes an event or a childhood memory that flooded my mind with pictures - there were a number of times during our conversation where I just wanted to stop and reflect on what he said but remembered I was conducting an interview!

I know I’m being particularly effusive about this guest, but I found it to be a truly special conversation. I think listening to Justice speak you’ll see what I mean.

Guest: Justice Mukheli

Title: Justice Mukheli - It’s an emotional interrogation that’s happening inside of me

Website: https://www.justicemukheli.com/

IG: @justicemukheli

Artists on his playlist: Melodiesinfonie & Dorj; Homeshake & Justice Der

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A multi-disciplinary artist Thomas works across the mediums of sculpture, film, photography and performance. He studied at Chelsea College and received an MA from the Royal College of Arts in 2006. His work is ‘a wider exploration of racial and social identity, perception and representation’.

There’s a deliberateness, a decisiveness about Thomas’ work - but it’s in the ordinary his figures don’t stand boldly, they’re not muscular with their chests out in a heroic stance, no, they have their hands in their pockets, or they’re playing with their phone, they may even be slouching, their expressions are blank. But here’s the thing, it’s the monumentalising of the ordinary that critiques what we consider important, what we consider valuable, what we give public space to.

We talk about his journey into the arts, from a potential career in the Royal Marines to artist, notions of identity, of black male identity and taking space unapologetically. We talk about removing or replacing racially charged public monuments. How does art speak to culture, how does art challenge, why does it challenge? And of course, we talk about music.

Guest: Thomas J Price

Title: Thomas J Price - Critiquing the monumental

Website: http://www.thomasjprice.com/

IG: @thomasjprice_

Twitter: @TJPStudio

Album on playlist: Abdullah Ibrahim, Senzo

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One of the things I love most about music isn’t just the making it, but the relationships I’ve made because of it - in fact I can’t separate the two, to me, everything is relational. The people I’ve met through music have become some of my most cherished friendships, it’s a very unique thing, hard to explain sometimes, but it’s indelible like a tattoo.

And so, I want to tell you about a person that has embedded themselves under my skin, someone who held up the ladder for me, someone I met through music who became a dear dear friend. It’s the story of my friend Ian Toothill, who was my bass player, he became my close friend and roommate, became the first man with cancer to climb Mount Everest and passed away from that cancer 2 years ago.

Because by now you know how much I love storytelling, this episode will be slightly different in that I will tell you about our friendship through story but you will hear clips of real interactions - you’ll hear excerpts of jam sessions we had in the living room and our ‘What’s App’ exchanges while he was in Tibet. This isn’t a story about cancer, it’s a story about friendship, it’s a story about music.

Songs: 'How does your garden grow?' by Matshidiso & jam sessions taken from 2011

To see full news interview click here

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Rob Cates is an elite vocal coach professional, one of only a handful vocal coaches accredited by Vocology in Practice in the UK - he teaches commercial artists, musical theatre singers, actors, Gospel singers both in the UK and internationally. He also coaches various choirs and regularly leads workshops and training events.

I’ve known Rob for nearly 10 years and I don’t know anyone who understands the voice like he does and is also so passionate about it, you’ll hear that passion come through in this interview.

Rob shares so many nuggets, so many pearls of wisdom. We talk about the complexity and uniqueness of the voice, how the sound of the voice changes according to not only location, but neighbourhood to neighbourhood and street to street! We talk about how the instrument of the voice is inseparable from the person themselves - we talk about vulnerability, how mental health and trauma impacts the voice, we even talk about Usain Bolt and how sport’s psychology has impacted vocal research!

Guest: Rob Cates

Title: Rob Cates, Our voice speaks of who we are

Website: https://robcatesvoice.com/

Artist on playlist: Jon Thurlow - https://youtu.be/W-uZGRI6_2A

Example of Judi Dench singing ‘Send in the Clowns’ mentioned by Rob in interview https://youtu.be/yvZex3Qf7QQ

Example of belt -Jennifer Hudson singing ‘Golden Slumbers/Carry the Weight. (listen between 2.04-2.14 for great belting) — https://youtu.be/T71MYh8kqZc

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Hailing from Botswana, Mpho studied international business in Malaysia before pursuing a full time career in music. And I’m glad she did, music is better off with her in it.

In 2017 she released a 6-track EP, Neo, released a single called Masa with Thato Jessica in 2019 and is currently working on new material that I hope we get to hear very soon. We talk about her musical trajectory - shifting from studying business to a career in music. We talk about her influences, singing in her native Setswana - of which personally I’m a huge fan, Setswana is such a lyrical language. Mpho is softly spoken, even her speaking voice is soothing and melodic, I think you’ll see what I mean…

Guest: Mpho Sebina

Title: Mpho Sebina - Masa, tapping into my Setswana heritage

Song Excerpts: No Evil and Loves Light by Mpho Sebina and Masa by Mpho Sebina and Thato Jessica

IG: @mphosebina

Song on playlist: Moonga K - Heartbeat 8

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Clever women also seem to have done a lot, they have a lot of qualifications, here’s a quick summary - Ayanna graduated with a first from both Trinity Laban Conservatoire of Music and Dance and the Manhattan School of Music. She’s been a featured artist with saxophonist Courtney Pine’s Afropeans: Jazz Warriors, a member of sitarist Anoushka Shankar’s Traces of You album tour and is the only non-American to have won amateur night live at the Apollo theatre in Harlem New York.

She’s released 3 EPs, through her own label Hill And Gully records and her full length album Road Runner, came out last year. 

We talk about Ayanna’s journey from a place at Cambridge to study French and Spanish to a scholarship at the Manhattan school of music. From classical music composition and orchestration to jazz, songwriting and life as a performer. We talk about incorporating the cello, which she’s named Reuben, into her performance. Valuing her creative independence and our mutual love of 90’s hip hop and RnB.

Guest: Ayanna Witter-Johnson

Song excerpts: Crossroads, Wooden Woman & Playground from the album Road Runner and Ain’t I A Woman all by Ayanna Witter-Johnson

Website: http://www.ayannamusic.com/

IG: @ayannawj

Youtube: AyannaWJ

Artist on playlist: Leroy Burgess

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Motheo Moeng is a cinematographer and photographer from South Africa. His work is wide-ranging. He’s worked on feature films including “Thina sobabili (meaning The two of us) which won numerous awards at film festivals in Los Angeles, Johannesburg, Rwanda and was selected as the South African feature for the 88th Academy Awards. He’s done TV for Ben Sherman & Red Bull. Award winning short films; music videos including Blick Bassy’s Woni and In the castle of my skin for Sons of Kemet and more recently a feature film & drama series for Netflix - Kagiso Lediga’s Catching Feelings and South African spy drama Queen Sono that came out in Feb this year.

I loved talking to Motheo, I learnt so much about how he sees the world, literally through his lens. We talk about his love of storytelling, particularly storytelling from an African perspective, we talk about how his childhood impacted his love of light and lighting black skin, cinematographers that inspire him, representing the African continent on a global stage and of course, music.

Guest: Motheo Moeng

IG: @motheomodaguru and @motheophotography

Song Excerpt: 'Running' by Matshidiso

Album on his playlist: Jay Electronica: A Written Testimony

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Alev released her first album in 2009, Storytelling Piano Playing Fräulein, her sophomore record Two-Headed Girl came out in 2016 and her latest album 3 came out at the end of last year. Her music has featured on critically acclaimed tv shows, Netflix series Dark and Black Mirror. She’s written, co-produced and performed with acclaimed sitar player, Anoushka Shankar and has also worked in close collaboration with Spitfire Audio creating an interactive sound library, but I’ll let her tell you more about that herself.

Song Excerpt: 'The Chair' by Alev Lenz

Album on her playlist: Claudja Barry: Sweet Dynamite

Website: https://www.alevlenz.com/

IG: @alev_lenz

Youtube: AlevLenzOfficial

Spitfire Audio: https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/alev-lenz-3/

Credits

Graphic Design: Carolyne Hill - http://www.carolynehill.com/

IG: @chillcreate

Theme music: Matshidiso

IG: @matshidisomusic

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And why ‘Holding up the ladder?’ Because we’re all trying to get somewhere and I think we build something stronger if we help each other, if we ‘hold up the ladder’ rather than pull it up from under us as we climb.

I’ll be talking to all kinds of creatives about process, lessons learned, things that inspire us, the music we’re listening to, what makes us who we are and the help we’ve had along the way. So, join me as we climb, holding up the ladder!

https://www.holdinguptheladder.com/

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