From becoming the first female editor of the Manchester Evening News to helping steer internal comms through Covid, Maria shares what leadership looks like behind the scenes. It’s an honest conversation about trust, pressure and knowing when it’s time to move on.

Links and References

BBC North / Media City UK: https://www.mediacityuk.co.uk/

BBC 5 Live: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_five_live

BBC Sounds: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds

BBC Bitesize: https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize

BBC Local Radio – Make a Difference campaign: https://www.bbc.co.uk/makeadifference

The Scott Partnership: https://www.scottpr.com/

Manchester Evening News: https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/

Lancashire Evening Telegraph: https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/

Lancashire Evening Post: https://www.lep.co.uk/

BBC Charter Review: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-launches-charter-review-to-future-proof-the-bbc

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Links and References

• Steve Dunne – Digital Drums: https://www.digitaldrums.co.uk
• Steve Dunne on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-dunne-fprca-a1b527a/
• The PRCA: https://www.prca.global/
• The CIPR: https://www.cipr.co.uk/
• PR in the Real World podcast: https://www.vivapr.co.uk/viva-podcast/
• Viva PR: https://www.vivapr.co.uk

Similar episodes

• 25 Lessons from 25 Years with Graham Goodkind: https://www.vivapr.co.uk/graham-goodkind-on-25-lessons-from-25-years-of-frank-pr/

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Links and references

Connect with Edna: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edna-boampong/

Edna’s appointment: https://liverpoolexpress.co.uk/liverpool-city-council-appoints-new-director-of-communications-and-engagement/

Edna Boampong – NHS Confederation profile: https://www.nhsconfed.org/people/edna-boampong

Liverpool City Council – anti-racism commitment / This is Liverpool: https://liverpool.gov.uk/council/equality-diversity-and-inclusion/our-commitment-to-anti-racism

Talking Bins / We’re Talking Bins campaign: https://liverpoolexpress.co.uk/third-liver-bird-highlights-liverpools-poor-recycling-rates

Healthier Together programme (Greater Manchester): https://manchestercommunitycentral.org/news/healthier-together-integrated-impact-assessment-forums

Similar episodes

When PR is tested in real life with Sarah Keaveny https://www.vivapr.co.uk/when-pr-is-tested-in-real-life/

What Dry January can teach you about behaviour change with Joe Marley https://www.vivapr.co.uk/what-dry-january-can-teach-you-about-behaviour-change/

How brave and inclusive marketing can change lives with Louise Marsden https://www.vivapr.co.uk/pr-in-the-real-world-how-brave-inclusive-marketing-changes-lives/

Comms-led change in the NHS with Neil Greaves https://www.vivapr.co.uk/pr-in-the-real-world-neil-greaves-comms-led-change-in-the-nhs/

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Harry takes us inside the SW1 'bubble', revealing how data, media coverage and strategic communications help push policy ideas onto the national agenda. Harry shares how attention-grabbing statistics, journalist relationships and targeted engagement with MPs can move issues from reports to Parliament.

Packed with practical lessons, Harry also shares how PR professionals can better influence policymakers by making life easier for time-poor politicians.

Harry is running the London Marathon in aid of Power2 - a CSJ charity. Power2 work in school's across the country to give students the support and guidance they need to reach their potential. You can donate, here: http://2026tcslondonmarathon.enthuse.com/pf/harry-bradshaw

Links and References

Centre for Social Justice – https://www.centreforsocialjustice.org.uk

CSJ Alliance (network of small charities) – https://www.centreforsocialjustice.org.uk/about-us/alliance

Universal Credit (UK welfare reform referenced) – https://www.gov.uk/universal-credit

Modern Slavery Act 2015 – https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/modern-slavery-act

WeMindTheGap charity – https://wemindthegap.org.uk

Other similar episodes

How PR Changes Policy with Ruth Boston - https://www.vivapr.co.uk/pr-in-the-real-world-how-pr-changes-policy-influencing-the-national-agenda-with-ruth-boston/

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Links and References

Reach plc – https://www.reachplc.com

Manchester Evening News (MEN) Awaab Ishak investigation – https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/death-two-year-old-awaab-25740113

Nottinghamshire Live – https://www.nottinghampost.com

Press Gazette (fake experts investigation) – https://pressgazette.co.uk/news/fake-experts-seo-journalism/

IPSO (Independent Press Standards Organisation) – https://www.ipso.co.uk

BBC Local Democracy Reporting Service – https://www.bbc.com/lnp/ldrs

Shelter – https://www.shelter.org.uk

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Links and References

Dr. Lucy Easthope – When the Dust Settles (book): https://www.hachette.co.uk/titles/lucy-easthope/when-the-dust-settles/9781529358247

Dr. Lucy Easthope – Come What May (book): https://www.hachette.co.uk/titles/lucy-easthope/come-what-may/9781399736220/

Desert Island Discs (Lucy Easthorpe episode, BBC Radio 4): https://www.globalplayer.com/podcasts/episodes/7DrsUDD/

Word of Mouth with Michael Rosen (episode featuring Lucy on disaster dialogue): https://open.spotify.com/episode/0To7fGDQwhztBumvv5tcnu

BBC Radio 4 – Are You Ready? (programme mentioned): https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002n7mh

Good Housekeeping (Lucy’s emergency preparedness interviews mentioned): https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/uk/health/a64618387/prepemergency-disaster/

Hillsborough (TV drama by Jimmy McGovern): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116533/

Amanda Coleman – work/book on reputation in crisis communications (mentioned): https://www.koganpage.com/marketing-communications/strategic-reputation-management-9781398617308

Amanda Coleman on PR in the Real World: https://www.vivapr.co.uk/pr-in-the-real-world-crisis-leadership/

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Links and References

Connect with Flo: https://www.linkedin.com/in/florian-taitsch-10aa29224/

Eurofighter Typhoon: https://www.eurofighter.com/

The Fighter Show (YouTube): https://www.youtube.com/@TheFighterShow

Viva PR: https://vivapr.co.uk/

Royal International Air Tattoo: https://www.airtattoo.com/

Spitzingsee (setting): https://www.spitzingsee.de/

Other episodes: https://www.vivapr.co.uk/viva-podcast/

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This one is about what PR looks like when it’s real people, real pressure and real consequences.

Sarah reflects on her early reporter days at the Bury Times and Bolton News, where she learned the value of trusted relationships, resilience under deadline, and telling human stories with impact. She then takes us inside 14 years at Greater Manchester Fire and Rescue Service, from managing live incidents to communicating through tragedy -including the death of a firefighter.

We also unpack the long-running scrutiny and reputational pressure that followed the Manchester Arena attack and the Arena Inquiry, and why humility, evidence and asking the awkward questions matter when an organisation has to prove genuine improvement.

Finally, Sarah talks us through the award-winning ‘Is This Okay?’ campaign tackling violence against women and girls - how it came together fast, landed with men as well as women, and sparked the kind of conversation behaviour change depends on - before sharing why she’s now focused on proactive, purpose-led comms at Manchester Met.

A must-listen for PR and comms professionals working in crisis, public sector, behaviour change, or anyone trying to do meaningful work without losing themselves in the process.

Links and references

Is This Okay? Campaign: https://isthisokgm.com/

Mayor of Greater Manchester – Is This Okay? campaign launch: https://www.greatermanchester-ca.gov.uk/news/mayor-launches-latest-stage-of-campaign-to-tackle-gender-based-violence-with-hard-hitting-film/

Greater Manchester Gender-Based Violence Strategy: https://www.greatermanchester-ca.gov.uk/what-we-do/safer-and-stronger-communities/gender-based-violence/isthisok

Manchester Metropolitan University: https://www.mmu.ac.uk/

Manchester Metropolitan University – About: https://www.mmu.ac.uk/about-us/

Greater Manchester Fire and Rescue Service: https://manchesterfire.gov.uk/

More PR in the Real World: https://www.vivapr.co.uk/viva-podcast/

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This episode is all about what it really takes to build — and sustain — a campaign that has become part of the cultural calendar, while staying rooted in evidence, trust and real-world impact.

Joe shares the origins of Dry January, from its humble beginnings as a personal experiment to a global challenge used by millions of people each year. We explore why January works so well as a moment for behaviour change, and how the campaign deliberately avoids judgement or prescription — instead meeting people wherever they are in their relationship with alcohol.

From a communications perspective, Joe unpacks the realities of running an annual campaign for nearly 15 years. He explains how Alcohol Change UK keeps Dry January feeling fresh by leaning into participant stories, community ambassadors and long-term outcomes. We also talk about the pressure of year-on-year comparisons and why 'sanity metrics' matter more than vanity numbers when you’re focused on genuine change.

The conversation also dives into the strategic role of tools like the Try Dry app, the science behind supported behaviour change and why the most important day of Dry January might actually be the 1st of February. Joe also shares how creative activations — including the 'Funny AF' comedy campaign — are used to challenge cultural assumptions about alcohol while keeping the tone approachable, human and engaging.

A must-listen for PR and communications professionals working on behaviour change, health campaigns, or any long-term initiative where trust, evidence and impact matter more than quick wins.

Links and References

Alcohol Change UK: https://alcoholchange.org.uk

Dry January campaign: https://alcoholchange.org.uk/help-and-support/managing-your-drinking/dry-january/about-dry-january/the-dry-january-story

Try Dry app: https://alcoholchange.org.uk/help-and-support/managing-your-drinking/dry-january/get-involved/the-dry-january-app

Alcohol Change UK Campaigns: https://alcoholchange.org.uk/get-involved/campaigns

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Louise talks about her early days at Keep Britain Tidy, where research-driven stunts (including rat tanks and unapologetically graphic dog fouling ads) showed why you can only push creative boundaries if you can back them up with data.

She then lifts the lid on the reality of FE marketing, including four campaigns a week, complex audiences from 16 to 90 and the responsibility of marketing colleges that are sanctuaries and second chances for students.

She also reveals what it really takes to rebrand large education groups like LTE Group and ELLG using her vast experience as a lesson for anyone in a similar role.

Along the way, she touches on crisis comms, prison education and her trustee work in the social care sector.

A must-listen for anyone working in education, charity or behaviour-change marketing who wants to be braver without losing sight of impact.

Links and References

• Keep Britain Tidy – https://keepbritaintidy.org
• The Manchester College – https://www.tmc.ac.uk
• LTE Group – https://www.ltegroup.co.uk
• East Lancashire Learning Group (ELLG) – https://eastlancslearning.ac.uk/
• Lancashire Adult Learning – https://www.lal.ac.uk
• Alternative Futures Group – https://www.afgroup.org.uk
• Novus (Prison Education) – https://www.novus.ac.uk
• Viva PR – https://www.vivapr.co.uk

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This conversation is about practical inclusion and performance. Louise shares why accessible comms consistently works harder and why using corporate channels as we did, even a couple of years ago, won’t deliver the same results today. She brings a lived perspective as a deaf communicator who grew up in a deaf household, and she shows how small changes - especially on social media - translate into real-world impact.

Her mantra is ‘progress, not perfection’: choose one change, embed it as a habit over nine to ten weeks and then layer in the next. It’s a sustainable way to remove barriers without overwhelming busy teams.

Links & references

• Improving accessibility in social media communications: https://lgcomms.org.uk/news-opinion/blog/improving-accessibility-in-social-media-communications/
• Sheffield City Council - main site: https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/
• Sheffield City Council - Newsroom: https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/news
• Sheffield City Council - Social Media House Rules (Linktree): https://linktr.ee/sheffieldcitycouncil
• Disabled By Society - Jamie Shields: https://disabledbysociety.com/
• RNIB - How to make your social media accessible (+ checklist): https://www.rnib.org.uk/living-with-sight-loss/assistive-aids-and-technology/tv-audio-and-gaming/guide-to-accessible-social-media/
• How screen readers handle emoji-heavy text (YouTube): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XJBIUH_o4w
• Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 2.2 - official W3C guidance: https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG22/
• Simon Sinek - Start With Why: https://simonsinek.com/books/start-with-why/
• CIPR - Chartered Institute of Public Relations: https://cipr.co.uk/
• LGA - Comms Hub: https://www.local.gov.uk/our-support/comms-hub-communications-support
• Women in PR - 40 over 40 Power List (2025): https://www.womeninpr.org.uk/women-in-pr-reveals-40-over-40-power-list/
• Andrew Bruce Smith - AI in PR: https://escherman.com/andrew-bruce-smith/
• CAN Digital - public-sector campaign: https://can-digital.net/

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She explains how the refreshed Barcelona Principles 4.0, discussed at this year’s AMEC Summit in Vienna, align with the Integrated Evaluation Framework so communicators can set objectives, map outcomes and connect activity to real behaviour and business impact.

Steph shares a candid take on AI in measurement, arguing that over-hype and opacity make it hard to trust black-box outputs when you need to ‘show your workings’. For her, good evaluation still relies on curiosity, transparency and the human judgement to question data rather than worship it.

The heart of the conversation is about embracing small numbers. Steph urges teams to stop kidding themselves with inflated site-wide reach and to recognise that article-level audiences are almost always lower than the headline figure. She explains why defensible, smaller numbers tell a truer story - especially when they link to what people did next.

Drawing on judging and winning experience at the AMEC Awards, Steph outlines what strong entries share: simple storytelling, clarity on learning and the courage to show how data drove change mid-campaign.

Steph leaves listeners with quick wins they can apply. She recommends using Google search data to evidence behaviour change and capturing Google Autocomplete before and after a launch to show shifts in demand - a ten-second tactic that lands in the boardroom.

This episode is for in-house teams and agencies who want credible, outcome-focused measurement that helps PR make better decisions.

Links & references

AMEC - Barcelona Principles 4.0: https://amecorg.com/barcelona-principles-4-0/

AMEC - Integrated Evaluation Framework: https://amecorg.com/amec-framework/

Experienced Media Analysts: https://experiencedmediaanalysts.com/

CoverageBook: https://coveragebook.com/

Releasd: https://releasd.com/

Google Trends: https://trends.google.com/

Everybody Lies (S. Stephens-Davidowitz): https://www.amazon.co.uk/Everybody-Lies-Internet-about-Really/dp/0062390856

RAJAR: https://www.rajar.co.uk/

CIPR CPD: https://www.cipr.co.uk/CPD

AMEC Awards: https://amecorg.com/awards/awards-2025/

Steph's first episode: https://www.vivapr.co.uk/pr-in-the-real-world-with-steph-bridgeman/

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

With more than 25 years in media intelligence, Liam offers a fascinating look at how far the industry has come, and where it’s heading next.

The conversation explores how technology has evolved to meet the demands of modern communications, what AI can and can’t do for PR teams and why human interpretation remains the real differentiator in a data-saturated world.

Liam explains how Onclusive’s Global Content Hub now processes millions of pieces of media content an hour, why the shift from AVEs to meaningful business metrics matters, and how AI is already helping communicators detect crises, interpret sentiment and make faster, smarter decisions.

As the discussion turns to AI search and the emergence of Generative Engine Optimisation (GEO), Liam makes a compelling case for why PR professionals must take ownership of how their brands show up in AI-driven results – and how content structure, authenticity and accuracy are becoming new pillars of reputation management.

He also shares practical advice for regional agencies and smaller teams looking to adopt AI tools without big budgets, including where to start and what skills will matter most in the years ahead.

Liam’s long-running newsletter, PR Measured, has chronicled a decade of change across media intelligence, and his perspective on the next wave of transformation is grounded, accessible and refreshingly pragmatic.

A must-listen for PR professionals, communications leaders and agency teams who want to understand how data and AI can enhance – not replace – the craft of PR.

Links and References:

Onclusive – https://onclusive.com

PR Measured newsletter – https://www.linkedin.com/company/pr-measured/posts/?feedView=all

AMEC Integrated Evaluation Framework – https://amecorg.com/amecframework

Connect with Liam Kelly on LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/liam-kelly-insight/

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This episode dives deep into the world of sport, PR and purpose. Paul reflects on the highs of promotion glory, the lows of financial turmoil and the lessons learned from steering a football club through both triumph and trauma. His story captures the emotional heartbeat of regional communications.

Paul shares how the digital revolution reshaped the role of the comms professional and how AI and technology are creating new opportunities for PR teams. Paul’s journey is a masterclass in resilient, values-driven communication.

We also explore the human side of leadership: balancing professional challenges with family life, navigating mental health pressures and finding meaning through community impact. As Paul says, 'Football clubs are content farms, but the stories that matter most are about people'

A must-listen for PR professionals, communications leaders, and anyone who believes the best storytelling starts close to home in the communities that shape who we are.

Links & References

• Bolton Wanderers Football Club – Official website: https://www.bwfc.co.uk
• Bolton Wanderers in the Community – The club’s charitable arm supporting local initiatives: https://www.bwitc.org.uk
• English Football League (EFL) – Paul’s former organisation: https://www.efl.com
• Viva PR – Independent regional PR agency behind PR in the Real World: https://vivapr.co.uk

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Picking up where Part 1 left off, Graham dives deep into the people side of PR - what it takes to grow a loyal, passionate team and why ‘growing your own’ talent has been one of the secrets to Frank’s longevity and culture.

Graham reflects on the pride (and occasional pain) of building an agency that’s produced hundreds of industry stars. He opens up about Frank’s journey through multiple ownership structures, sharing candid lessons about timing, intuition and why you shouldn’t always listen to the advisors.

Graham also explains how embracing an Employee Ownership Trust (EOT) has re-energised Frank, giving everyone a stake in the agency’s future.

There’s practical wisdom here too: why leadership means letting people swim (but never drown), how to balance risk and reward and why founders must learn not to get too high on the highs or too low on the lows.

Graham also talks candidly about burnout, balance and rediscovering his ‘mojo’ - proof that even in a fast-changing industry, experience and passion can co-exist with humility and humour.

He wraps up with reflections on creativity, culture and keeping an agency relevant by mentoring Gen Z talent, launching Frank Social and a new creative arm that embodies the brand’s rebellious DNA.

A must-listen for agency founders, PR professionals, and anyone building a business with heart, humour and long-term impact in mind.

Links and References

Connect with Graham - https://www.linkedin.com/in/goodkind/

Frank PR - https://welcometofrank.com/

Graham’s ‘Legends of Frank’ series – https://www.linkedin.com/posts/goodkind_topthree-activity-7375895365574873088-o0Lo?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAC4mOfcBYPfcRe9wxqsRl4pJULZsG0BGg2M

Part 1 of Graham’s episode –

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2VH4uM6aAmsrDjDVaw7TEO?si=pA4Y_LqFS6CsbOTGff-G6Q

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/lessons-from-25-years-in-pr-with-graham-goodkind-part-1/id1777087032?i=1000731714212

https://youtu.be/_nlmnP371t4?si=dmTtAgeq0jDi1svc

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This episode is all about the mindset and moments that have kept Graham at the top of his game in an industry that never stops changing.

Graham explains why there’s never a perfect time to start a business, how to create a genuine point of difference in a crowded PR market and why the best ideas often come from being bold enough to go against convention.

He talks about the thinking behind trademarking 'talkability' and why every campaign should aim to get people talking organically — whether it’s in the media, online or around the kitchen table.

He also shares his stance on ditching timesheets and focusing on outcomes over hours, offering a different way to measure value in creative work. Graham discusses the creative process behind viral campaigns like Weetabix and beans, revealing what it really takes to make ideas travel and to turn into results.

You’ll hear why he believes in 'being a Dick' (a nod to Olympic high-jumper Dick Fosbury), how saying no to convention can help you say yes to creativity and why persistence — never taking no for an answer — is still one of PR’s most valuable skills.

This episode is a must-listen for PR professionals, agency founders and anyone looking to sharpen their creative instincts and understand what truly drives impact in modern communications.

Links and References

Connect with Graham - https://www.linkedin.com/in/goodkind/

Frank PR – https://welcometofrank.com/

CIPR – Chartered Institute of Public Relations – https://www.cipr.co.uk

Vote for Graham to be CIPR President - https://www.cipr.co.uk/CIPR/About_Us/Governance_/Elections/President_elect_candidates.aspx?WebsiteKey=0379ffac-bc76-433c-9a94-56a04331bf64

Weetabix x Heinz Beans Campaign – https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/articles/controversial_breakfast_tweet

Dick Fosbury – The Fosbury Flop – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Fosbury

Cryonics Institute, Michigan – https://www.cryonics.org/

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In our 40th episode and part two of this special episode of PR in the Real World, Tony continues his conversation with Darryl Sparey, Joint MD of Hard Numbers, to explore how PR agencies can practically adapt to a future powered by AI, data and Generative Engine Optimisation (GEO).

Darryl talks about how Hard Numbers is bringing AI into the day-to-day - setting up a steering group to test ideas, using data to shape campaigns as they happen, and applying a commercial edge to how PR proves its worth.

He also issues a critical call to action: as Google’s AI Overviews and other generative search tools divert traffic from publishers, PR must financially support the editorial media ecosystem it depends on - or risk losing it entirely.

This is a must-listen for PR leaders, agency owners and communicators who want to stay ahead of the curve. If part one explained why GEO matters, part two shows how to make it work.

Links

Connect with Darryl: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darryl-sparey/

Check out Hard Numbers: https://www.hardnumbers.co.uk/

Read Hard Numbers’ Research: https://www.hardnumbers.co.uk/research

Reputation in the age of AI: https://www.hardnumbers.co.uk/research-reputation-in-the-age-of-ai

Onclusive and Hard Numbers: https://onclusive.com/en-gb/resources/whitepaper/ai-industry-trends-2025/

Institute for Public Relations – “How PR Pros are Using AI”: https://instituteforpr.org/how-pr-pros-are-prioritizing-strategy-and-workplace-value-in-2025/

Visit Viva’s website: https://www.vivapr.co.uk/

Other episodes of PR in the Real World: https://www.vivapr.co.uk/viva-podcast/

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this special two-part episode of PR in the Real World, Tony Garner sits down with Darryl Sparey, founder of agency 'Hard Numbers' and one of the leading voices on AI in PR, to unpack what GEO really means for communicators.

Hard Numbers' pioneering research into how large language models draw on editorial coverage makes the case for why PR can’t afford to miss this moment, and he told PR in the Real World what the industry stands to lose if they do.

Darryl is passionate about protecting and advancing PR’s role in shaping reputation in the AI era.

Darryl is putting this conversation at the centre of the industry - ensuring regional, independent agencies and in-house teams alike don’t get left behind.

If you want to understand how PR should respond to AI, and why GEO could be the defining discipline of the next 20 years, this episode is unmissable.

For more industry-defining PR conversations like this, be sure to subscribe to our channels.

Links

Connect with Darryl: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darryl-sparey/

Check out Hard Numbers: https://www.hardnumbers.co.uk/

Read Hard Numbers' Research: https://www.hardnumbers.co.uk/research

Reputation in the age of AI: https://www.hardnumbers.co.uk/research-reputation-in-the-age-of-ai

Ketchum UK - "We're Sitting on a Goldmine": https://www.ketchum.com/uk/news/we-are-sitting-on-a-goldmine-how-can-pr-influence-ai-search-results/

Insight Agents' Interview with Darryl: https://insightagents.co.uk/why-pr-really-needs-to-embrace-hard-numbers-or-risk-being-seen-as-irrelevant-with-darryl-sparey/

Institute for Public Relations - “How PR Pros are Using AI”: https://instituteforpr.org/how-pr-pros-are-using-ai/

Onclusive and Hard Numbers: https://onclusive.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/EN-UK-Case-Study-%E2%80%94-HardNumbers.pdf

PR in the Real World with Ben Verinder: https://embed.acast.com/671b4fbbe1ae5a1f28223a45/683da022708e9fc9b43c2d42

Visit Viva's website: https://www.vivapr.co.uk/

Other episodes: https://www.vivapr.co.uk/viva-podcast/

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Each episode shares practical, budget-savvy tactics drawn from the communities we serve in healthcare, advanced manufacturing, education and the public sector. No celebrity gloss, just impact you can measure.

This week, Rachel Westray joins us to trace a career shaped early by family influence and sharpened by a year in León, where language and culture taught her how messages land.

Now Site Communications Manager at Westinghouse’s Springfields site near Preston, Rachel works at the junction of internal engagement, industry partnerships and community relations - moving in a single day from a parish hall briefing to a global call with colleagues across 40 countries.

She makes a compelling case for why comms must have a genuine seat (and voice) at the leadership table if it is to steer strategy, protect reputation and bring people with you.

We explore what ‘impact’ looks like in a safety-critical, growth sector: myth-busting with the public, building trust with stakeholders and planning Springfields’ 80th anniversary in a way that reflects the site’s deep roots and fierce loyalty.

Rachel explains how apprenticeships and internships create real social mobility, why the nuclear community’s openness is a strength and how regional organisations can - and should - be heard nationally.

There’s also an honest take on the post-Covid shift from comms as a ‘nice to have’ to business-critical, the role of professional standards through the CIPR and a balanced view on AI.

If you care about meaningful engagement, talent pipelines and the power of place in PR, this conversation is a masterclass.

Links

Connect with Rachel: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachel-westray-150b5458/

Westinghouse Springfields: https://westinghousenuclear.com/uknuclear/springfields

Nuclear Industry Association (NIA): https://www.niauk.org/

Women in Nuclear UK: https://www.winuk.org.uk/

Nuclear Institute – Young Generation Network (YGN): https://nuclearinst.com/ygn

CIPR (Chartered Institute of Public Relations): https://www.cipr.co.uk/

Lancashire Combined County Authority: https://lancashire-cca.gov.uk/

Lancashire Business Board: https://lancashire-cca.gov.uk/governance/lancashire-business-board

EDF – Heysham power stations: https://www.edfenergy.com/energy/power-stations/heysham-1

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Andy shares the stories, lessons and philosophies that have shaped his iconic career and continue to influence how agencies grow today.

An early break at Text 100 during a period when the agency worked alongside Microsoft in the heady days of the late 80’s and 90’s pulled Andy into the world of public relations before taking on a series of Board roles, working as part of the team that built the company into a global powerhouse.

Andy takes us inside his experiences of organic growth on an international scale, building networks of agencies across Europe, the US and beyond.

He reflects on the importance of positioning and proposition in helping agencies stand out, why founders often hold themselves back and the 'holy trinity' of agency growth: marketing, business development and sales.

Now leading Westofcenter Consulting, Andy brings all of that experience into his consultancy, advising agencies of every size on how to unlock growth, strengthen culture and keep clients and teams thriving.

His insights into leadership, talent retention and client-centricity are invaluable for anyone serious about building an agency for the long term.

As ever, the conversation is rooted in what PR really looks like behind the stories you have heard and the ethos that drives this podcast, created by Viva, the CIPR’s Small Agency of the Year.

Andy’s reflections make for a must-listen for agency leaders and communicators who want to stay curious, build better businesses, and embrace the future of PR.

Links and Resources

Get Andy's services with Westofcenter

Follow Andy West and Westofcenter on LinkedIn

Read Andy’s agency advisory newsletter

The home of Bigger Better Bolder Thinking

Gareth Healy - Standout or Standstill

Luk Smeyers 

Find out more about Viva, the CIPR’s Small Agency of the Year

Previous PR in the Real World episodes

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Julia Petryk is a Kyiv-based PR professional who understands what comms on the frontlines really is.

On 24 February 2022, Russia invaded Ukraine, with Russian President Vladamir Putin announcing the commencement of a three day ‘special military operation’.

The invasion is into its fourth year.

Within the first hours of the Russian full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Julia Petryk founded the PR Army.

The initiative was a response to the Russian violation of international agreements and its brutal invasion of Ukraine. PR and Comms experts got together to build strong Ukrainian presence on the global arena and make Ukrainian voices vocal all over the world.

In this raw interview, Julia shares her story with PR in the Real World, detailing her experience in our profession and the impact of Europe’s largest war since World War II on her life as a PR professional.

Listen, or watch, this unique interview for a genuine insight into PR on the frontlines.

Connect with Julia on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julia-petryk/

Learn about the PR Army: https://www.pr.army/

Discover the Tech PR School: https://product-pr.com/

Find more of Julia’s work: https://calibrated.agency/

The Rooster of Borodianka: https://www.maidanmuseum.org/en/node/2138

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In this episode of PR in the Real World, we’re joined by Claire Quansah - agency consultant and team strategist - for a deep dive into what really makes agencies work (or not).

With 20 years of experience across global networks and independents, Claire shares what she’s learned about agency growth, people management and the power of clear communication.

She reflects on her early PR career and how a rocky start with journalists taught her the value of preparation.

We explore the growing pains founders face as they scale - from hiring the right people to building shared purpose - and why many struggle with the shift from practitioner to manager.

We also unpack how to handle tough conversations, why psychological safety matters and the difference between diversity and true inclusion.

Claire shares practical tips for creating workplaces where everyone can thrive, and how her Manchester Agency Walks have become a community space for honest conversations and shared learning.

Connect with Claire on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/claire-quansah/

BME PR Pros: https://www.bmeprpros.co.uk

DISC Personality Profiles: https://www.discprofile.com

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Rob shares his unconventional career journey - from a shyness-shaking stint in a model shop and summers teaching martial arts at Camp America, to stand-up gigs and comedy characters on Men & Motors, including Reverend Bob. His breakthrough into media came via a bold pink envelope mailed to Granada TV, landing him a runner’s role that soon led to directing and presenting.

He explains how he transitioned from TV to founding Bigtank in 2005 with a belief that video should tell emotionally resonant, people-first stories. That ethos – ‘content that matters for brands that care’ - remains central to their work with clients across sectors like healthcare, manufacturing, education, and the public sector. Rob discusses how they distinguish between video that merely ‘looks good’ and content that shifts what audiences think, feel and do - the real benchmark of effectiveness for any PR-led visual storytelling.

Throughout the episode, Rob unpacks how PR professionals can reframe transactional briefs into emotionally resonant narratives that serve both audience and brand strategy. From filming quirky campaigns about electric cat litter trays to life-changing mental health videos, he emphasises that purpose and empathy must be at the heart of content creation.

Whether you're pitching your next big campaign, advising a client on video direction or navigating your own leadership journey, this conversation will shift how you think about storytelling, audience connection and long-term impact in PR.

Links & Resources

About Bigtank and Rob Hallam

• Company website: bigtank.co.uk
• Rob Hallam company profile: bigtank.co.uk/about
• North West Aerospace Alliance profile: aerospace.co.uk
• Scaleup Q&A via Two Zero Lancashire: twozerolancs.com
• Creative showcase – Lancashire Business View: lancashirebusinessview.co.uk
• Reverend Bob’s Torque Show Ep. 13 – Men & Motors
• Best of Rob Hallam Reviews – Men & Motors
• Used Car Advice from Reverend Bob
• Torque Show Ep. 4

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Ruth takes us inside some of NHSA’s recent campaigns, including the Ageing in the North report, where she reveals how shocking statistics - like £10 billion lost each year due to ill health in older Northerners - were packaged for the media and cited in Parliament. She also explains how lived experience stories play a vital role in making stats human, helping broadcasters like the BBC bring data to life.

We talk campaign strategy, media relations, messaging for policymakers, and the importance of building meaningful relationships with journalists. Ruth also shares her approach to team leadership, her tips for comms professionals wanting to break into the policy space, and what’s next for NHSA, including the upcoming Child of the North and Nutrition North reports.

Whether you're working in public affairs, health PR, or simply want to use communications to make a difference, this episode is packed with insight.

Links from the episode:

NHSA website

Health Equity North

Connect with Ruth:

LinkedIn

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Jess opens up about the early days of her career in music management, learning her trade in a pre-Facebook digital world, and how that hustle shaped her bold approach to marketing leadership today. She reflects on her transition from agency life to client-side, explaining how her time at AMP and other firms taught her the value of deep customer understanding, tailored campaigns and the importance of treating every client like they’re the most important person in the room.

Now at VEKA, Jess leads both internal and external communications for a business with more than 50 subsidiaries worldwide and a vital footprint in the Burnley community.

She discusses the strategic importance of aligning marketing with commercial goals, how her team delivers industry-leading product launches like OMNIA, and why genuine co-creation with customers delivers better outcomes than top-down thinking or 'surprise and delight' campaigns.

This episode also dives into the evolution of the fenestration industry, how VEKA is embracing digital transformation through tools like VEKA Edge and the ongoing challenge of attracting the next generation into manufacturing. Jess explains how VEKA's marketing now extends beyond brochures, offering installers everything from point-of-sale assets to immersive showroom experiences, while also supporting internal comms that empower over 400 employees across the UK.

From championing local agency partnerships and buying Burnley-first, to leading with honesty, transparency and impact, Jess shares a passionate and practical view on what real-world marketing looks like when you leave the fluff behind.

It’s a must-listen for anyone navigating B2B marketing, PR in manufacturing, internal communications, or regional agency life - packed with insights on agency-client relationships, commercial alignment and the mindset required to lead a team while managing imposter syndrome.

🔗 Mentioned in this episode:

• VEKA UK
• VEKA Edge Marketing Portal
• Burnley Bondholders

📲 Find Jess on LinkedIn

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Alison is the Director of Catalyst Communications, a consultancy specialising in PR, training and internal crisis communication. She brings a wealth of frontline experience, including her role during the 2007 Glasgow Airport terror attack, to this powerful and practical conversation.

Alison shares insights from her new book, Internal Communication in Times of Crisis: How to secure employee trust, support and advocacy in crisis situations, which introduces her seven-stage '7S' model. The book offers a blueprint for how organisations can effectively support and engage their internal audiences before, during and after a crisis.

Listeners will gain a deeper understanding of why internal communication is often treated as the 'Cinderella' of crisis planning and why that needs to change. Alison explains how her 7S model (Surviving, Supporting, Sense-making, Stabilising, Stimulating, Sustaining, and Strengthening) provides a clear, actionable framework for responding to internal needs throughout a crisis lifecycle.

She highlights the serious risks of neglecting your internal audience, including the potential for increased harm, prolonged disruption or even triggering new crises. Alison also explores how building trust, maintaining visible leadership and fostering a strong internal culture can dramatically improve an organisation’s ability to recover and thrive after a crisis.

Crucially, the episode illustrates how internal communication can serve as an early warning system. By creating a psychologically safe environment where people feel able to raise concerns, organisations can spot and address smouldering issues before they escalate.

Whether you're an in-house comms lead, a PR agency stepping into a client’s crisis, or a business leader wanting to build resilience from within, this episode is packed with expert insight and practical advice to elevate your internal comms strategy.

Resources & Mentions

Buy Internal Communication in Times of Crisis:

• Kogan Page
• Amazon UK
• Waterstones

Learn more about Alison Arnot:

• Catalyst Communications
• Alison on LinkedIn

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But this is a special one. In this one, we bring you with us as Viva PR was crowned the ‘Small PR Consultancy of the Year’ at the CIPR Excellence awards.

Join usual host Tony, producer Dan and Account Director Jac on their trip to the awards as they documented it all for your listening pleasure.

Don’t worry. Normal service will resume on Tuesday with a fantastic guest full of experience and insight.

And if you want to work with the best small PR consultancy in the UK, let’s talk hello@vivapr.co.uk

#CIPR, #PublicRelations, #SmallAgency, #PRSupport

Check out the...

Small PR Consultancy of the Year

CIPR Excellence Awards

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From early days in investment banking to two decades of leading health-focused campaigns in the NHS, Leanne opens up about why she spent years feeling like an outsider in the industry - and how she finally found her voice through peer networks like Public Sector Comms Headspace and CommsCamp. Now based in Scotland, Leanne is on a mission to decentralise the UK comms landscape - putting accessibility, inclusion, and regional expertise front and centre.

She shares how Socially Mobile transformed her confidence and career progression, the stories behind campaigns that changed lives - including sexual health and consent education - and how she’s lifting the next generation through mentorship and grassroots leadership.

This episode is a must-listen for public sector communicators, regional PR professionals, and anyone looking for real-world inspiration on how to build a career rooted in purpose, impact, and community.

Links and Mentions:

Public Sector Comms Headspace Facebook Group

CommsCamp Scotland

Socially Mobile

Zero Waste Scotland

Rebecca Roberts – Thread & Fable

Subscribe to PR in the Real World for honest, impact-driven conversations from the frontlines of UK communications.

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Andy shares his unique journey, starting as the co-founder of City Life magazine in the 1980s, which captured Manchester’s emerging music, arts and social scenes. He describes his transition into journalism at the Manchester Evening News, where he covered stories involving some of the city’s most famous figures, including Morrissey, Ryan Giggs, and Sir Alex Ferguson.

From there, Andy takes us inside the world of PR, revealing how he founded Spin Media, later known as SKV Communications. He reflects on the evolution of public relations from relationship-based media work to today's data-driven, digital-first environment, offering rare insights into how PR has adapted to the rise of social media and the decline of traditional journalism.

Throughout the conversation, Andy discusses how Manchester’s music scene - led by legendary acts like Joy Division, The Smiths, Factory Records, and Tony Wilson - helped redefine the city’s global identity. He explains how the city leveraged its cultural heritage to attract global investment, talent, and regeneration, providing a blueprint for modern place-branding and city marketing.

Andy also talks about his acclaimed book Manchester Unspun: How a City Got High on Music, published by Manchester University Press, and gives us a preview of his next project, Oxford Road: The Street That Changed the World, which will delve into Manchester’s rich history of innovation.

Whether you're a PR professional, city planner, marketer, or simply fascinated by Manchester’s rise, this episode offers a masterclass in how storytelling, media, and culture can shape a city’s destiny.

Buy Andy's book: https://manchesteruniversitypress.co.uk/9781526168450/

City Life Archive: https://www.mdmarchive.co.uk/tag/9320/City-Life

Andy's TedX Page: https://www.tedxmanchester.com/speakers-2023/andy-spinoza/

Check out Andy's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andy_spinoza/

Find Andy on X (formerly known as Twitter): https://x.com/andyspin

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Harriet opens up about the emotional rollercoaster of beginning her career at the onset of COVID-19, adapting to hybrid work and how PR in Australia differs from the UK. With humour and honesty, she reflects on how early exposure to impactful projects shaped her approach and why PR should give juniors more than just the mundane.

Whether you're a PR professional or someone just starting out, Harriet’s story is packed with insights about building confidence, staying versatile and keeping the spark alive at work.

Harriet’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/harriet-dawson/

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We delve into the impact of geopolitical and technological changes, the role of AI in communications, and how initiatives like PitchForward and Socially Mobile are reshaping industry norms. Whether you're an agency leader, comms professional, or aspiring practitioner, this episode is packed with insights on leadership, lifelong learning and building a more inclusive PR industry.

Want to know more about what we discussed? Here's some helpful links...

Sarah's website: https://www.sarah-waddington.co.uk/

Sarah's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahwaddingtoncbe/

Socially Mobile: https://www.sociallymobile.org.uk/

CIPR: https://www.cipr.co.uk/

PRCA Pitch Forward: https://www.prca.global/explore-pr/campaigns/prca-pitch-forward

Future Proof Community: https://wadds.co.uk/futureproof

Institute of Directors: https://www.iod.com/

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We explore how a love of tabloid news and an eye for the absurd led him to a career creating stories that travel far and wide. Mark shares the thinking behind some of his most iconic work, including the campaign that saw brands drop letters from their logos to highlight the urgent need for blood donations, and how a can of gloopy Christmas dinner made global headlines.

He talks us through his ‘minimum effort, maximum impact’ philosophy, why the best ideas often whisper rather than shout, and how to keep the audience – not the brief – at the center of creative thinking. We also hear about his move from agency life into training and mentoring, and why he believes that creativity can absolutely be taught.

Whether you’re just starting out in PR or have been in the industry for years, this episode is packed with practical advice, fascinating stories and inspiration to help you think differently next time you’re faced with a challenging brief.

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Dee also opens up about her daughter’s rare life limiting condition, and how navigating this alongside a demanding comms role led her to start her own consultancy. It’s a powerful conversation – one that challenges assumptions about success, work-life balance, and what it means to be ‘resilient’ in the real world. No matter your vocation, this one is a must listen.

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Katharine Topham’s career path is wonderfully unconventional. From studying the environment at Durham University to driving around construction sites in steel-toed boots as an "End User Specialist," Katharine has mastered the art of "seeing the whites of the eyes" of the customer. We explore her transition into the renewable energy sector, specifically looking at the growing world of Heat Networks and the unique comms challenges of a B2B2C business model.

The conversation dives into the practical realities of connecting with diverse residents, many of whom are non-native English speakers, and how to use empathy to bridge the gap in essential services. Katharine explains why businesses often fail by focusing solely on the direct client while ignoring the end customer. From developing dedicated consumer brands with "softer" aesthetics to using WhatsApp for more convenient customer service, this episode is a blueprint for making technical PR accessible, authentic and human.

From a PR and communications perspective, this episode covers:

• The B2B2C Challenge: Balancing the needs of the direct customer (Housing Associations/Local Authorities) with the actual end user (Residents).
• Face-to-Face Market Research: Why physically visiting construction sites or resident liaison meetings provides deeper insight than any digital tool.
• The "Innocent Drinks" Influence: Applying chatty, informal, and accessible branding to "unsexy" industries like energy and logistics.
• Translating Technical Jargon: Using animations and dynamic search websites to explain complex concepts like Heat Networks to a lay audience.
• Reputation Management & Trustpilot: Investigating negative reviews as a tool for service improvement and long-term brand differentiation.
• Inclusive Comms: Implementing translation functions and multi-channel support (WhatsApp/Web/App) to reach disenfranchised demographics.

Katharine shares the "sliding doors" moment of her final year at university that sparked her marketing passion and offers advice to her 21-year-old self. We also discuss the role of Social Value in public sector tendering, moving beyond "communal gardens" to real community support like climate education and school engagement.

This episode is relevant for professionals working in:

• Energy & Utilities PR: Navigating the move toward Net Zero and increased industry regulation.
• Construction & Infrastructure: Interested in end-user engagement and stakeholder management.
• Marketing Managers: Tasked with humanising technical B2B brands for a consumer audience.
• Market Researchers: Seeking to blend hard data with human-centric "boots on the ground" insights.

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Paul Earnshaw has spent three decades within the air sector of BAE Systems, witnessing the evolution of comms from printed newsletters to sophisticated digital apps. We explore the unique challenges of the defence industry, where 50% of the workforce consists of engineers and manufacturers who are often "offline" and away from screens. Paul explains why face-to-face communication remains the highest-valued tool in any PR kit and how senior leaders who have "grown up" with the company are the key to organisational credibility.

The conversation delves into the "blurring of the lines" between internal and external communications, noting that tools like LinkedIn have now become vital employee channels. Paul also shares the strategy behind BAE’s "Safety: It’s No Game" campaign, which used sports-style punditry and humour to tackle serious safety messaging. From navigating redundancy comms to driving the sustainability and ESG agenda, Paul offers a masterclass in putting the audience first in a complex, multi-site environment.

From a PR and communications perspective, this episode covers:

• The Value of Face-to-Face: Why built-in trust between line managers and teams is more effective than any digital app.
• Engaging the "Offline" Population: Strategies for reaching manufacturing staff who cannot use mobile phones on the factory floor.
• Authenticity vs. Polish: Why allowing leaders to speak in their own words (including the "ums" and "ahs") increases credibility.
• Internal Segmentation: Managing "tribes" within a business where individuals have competing connections to site, function, and group.
• The Blurring Comms Boundary: Understanding that external media and social channels are now primary internal comms tools.
• Gamification of Safety: Using punditry-style videos to embed serious messages into daily cultural conversations.

Paul discusses the transition from British Aerospace to BAE Systems and the importance of "community investment" in inspiring the next generation of STEM talent. He also reflects on his own background as a "Lancashire lad" from Mill Hill, de-mything the idea that you need an Ivy League or Oxbridge degree to lead a multinational FTSE 100 comms function.

This episode is relevant for professionals working in:

• Internal Communications: Particularly those managing large, disparate, or non-desk-based workforces.
• Defence & Engineering PR: Seeking insights into the specific cultural nuances of technical industries.
• ESG & Sustainability Leads: Interested in how to embed global agendas into a localised workforce DNA.
• Aspiring PR Professionals: Looking for career advice on progressing from apprenticeships to senior leadership.

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Andrew Wood started his manufacturing business at 19 and has spent over 20 years building multi-million-pound enterprises, including the remarkable turnaround of Quest Electrical. Despite having no formal PR background, Andrew has a razor-sharp "honed radar" for effective communications. He explains why PR should be viewed as "storytelling on steroids" and why every penny spent on an agency must eventually map back to a financial return.

The conversation pulls back the curtain on the "Buyer’s Perspective," covering everything from mystery-shopping prospective agencies to the frustration of "senior-led pitches" followed by junior-led delivery. Andrew breaks down his "Brand Architecture" model and why authenticity is the only way to salvage a struggling reputation. If you want to know how to talk the language of a CEO and move beyond "vanity metrics," this episode is an essential listen.

From a PR and communications perspective, this episode covers:

• The Commercial Reality of PR: Why agencies must understand that their ultimate responsibility is to drive revenue and growth.
• Due Diligence from the Other Side: How business leaders "watch" agencies for months—checking their social media and testimonials—before making a move.
• The "Face of the Pitch" Problem: Addressing the industry-wide issue of senior directors disappearing once the contract is signed.
• PR vs. Marketing: Defining PR as a medium-to-long-term investment in brand awareness, while marketing delivers the "instant results."
• Salvaging Reputation: Lessons from the Quest Electrical turnaround on how honest, human-to-human comms can rebuild trust with suppliers and customers.
• The "Friday Afternoon Test": Why personality and "chemistry" are just as important as technical capability in a long-term partnership.

Andrew discusses the "Pupil-First" mentality he uses to sell playground equipment to schools—proving that understanding the emotional driver behind a purchase is key to landing big contracts. He also shares his scepticism toward "fast-track" influencer marketing and why building a brand should always be a slow, organic process built on solid foundations.

This episode is relevant for professionals working in:

• PR Agency Owners & Directors: Looking to improve their pitch-to-win ratio and understand client expectations.
• Account Managers: Tasked with managing high-growth SME clients and demonstrating ROI.
• Entrepreneurs & MDs: Seeking advice on how to choose and manage their first PR or marketing agency.
• B2B Marketers: Interested in manufacturing, logistics, and industrial sector communications.

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Alex Waddington cut his teeth in journalism before shifting to strategic comms in higher education and the non-profit sector. Now, he’s leading a "white knight" charge to improve data literacy within the PR industry. We explore why the common badge of pride, "I do words, not numbers", is becoming a liability in a digital-first world. Alex explains the "Fire and Ice" concept: combining the fire of human creativity with the ice of hard analytical data to produce spectacular narrative results.

The conversation dives into practical examples of data-led PR, from helping the Molly Rose Foundation lobby for online safety to analysing Netflix’s massive 18,000-row viewership spreadsheets. We also tackle the "elephant in the room": AI. Alex breaks down how AI models can help PRs crunch public datasets, write complex Excel formulas, and identify correlations, while emphasising why human context and "domain knowledge" remain the ultimate safeguards against AI hallucinations.

From a PR and communications perspective, this episode covers:

• The Rise of Data Journalism: Learning from the New York Times and the FT to bring investigative rigour to PR campaigns.
• Data-Informed vs. Data-Driven: Why being "informed" by data is better than being blindly "driven" by it.
• The "Fire and Ice" Narrative: Using Sam Knowles' framework to blend art and science in storytelling.
• Public Data as a Story Source: How to use NHS job vacancies, EU safety reports, or ONS data to create top-line news hooks.
• AI as a "Data Friend": Using ChatGPT for data cleaning, scraping transcripts, and verifying gut instincts with hard facts.
• The Future of the PR Profession: Why PR professionals who use AI will replace those who don't, and how data literacy creates a unique point of difference.

Alex discusses the environmental impact of AI and data centres, noting that the tech industry now consumes more carbon than aviation, a crucial consideration for values-led brands.

This episode is relevant for professionals working in:

• PR Agency Owners & Account Managers: Looking to differentiate their service through data-led insights.
• Public Sector & HE Comms: Tasked with evaluating complex social programs or lobbying government.
• Non-Profit Campaigners: Seeking affordable ways to create high-impact "red sofa" news hooks without expensive field research.
• Journalism Students: Interested in the intersection of data, investigation, and public relations.

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In January 2024, Viva PR made the monumental shift to becoming employee-owned, a move that requires a radical rethink of internal and external communications. To understand the "dos and don'ts," Tony Garner sits down with Caroline Noblett and the leadership team from Granby Marketing, who have been navigating their own EOT journey since 2022. Caroline shares her transition from Head of Finance to Managing Director and explains why her title was intentionally changed to "Director of People and Finance" to reflect a culture that prioritises staff over spreadsheets.

The conversation covers the strategic "why" behind EOTs, from preserving a founder’s legacy to protecting local jobs. Caroline breaks down the practicalities of communication in a logistics environment where 80% of staff don't have email, using digital signage and employee forums to bridge the gap. We also discuss the "Succession Planning" roadmap, the myth of "magical moments" on signing day, and why the secret to a successful trust is building a collaborative culture long before the papers are signed.

From a PR and communications perspective, this episode covers:

• The EOT Communication Strategy: Keeping colleagues, suppliers, and customers updated throughout a complex financial transaction.
• Internal Comms in Warehousing: Reaching a "deskless" workforce using digital signage, training for line managers, and quarterly forums.
• Preserving Brand Legacy: Why EOTs are a powerful alternative to "speed dating" with large competitors who might absorb and erase an SME's identity.
• Managing Expectations: Explaining deferred consideration and "Freedom Day" to staff who may be confused about profit shares and day-to-day decision-making.
• Succession Planning PR: Managing the transition from a long-term founder (Jo) to a new MD (Caroline) without unnerving clients.
• The "People over Profit" Metric: Aligning staff to a common goal to improve service quality for clients.

Caroline discusses the "unsexy but essential" world of third-party logistics, including Granby’s role in supporting the 2021 Office for National Statistics Census. We also touch on the importance of "Psychological Safety" in the workplace and why employee-owned businesses are uniquely supportive of one another, regardless of their industry sector.

This episode is relevant for professionals working in:

• Agency Owners & Founders: Considering an exit strategy that protects their team and legacy.
• HR & Internal Comms Managers: Navigating major structural changes and seeking ways to reach non-digital employees.
• Succession Planners: Interested in how to transition leadership roles within an EOT framework.
• Accountants & Financial Advisors: Looking for the "human side" of employee ownership transactions.

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Phil Caplin has spent over 25 years navigating the UK’s radio and television landscape. From his early days in fashion merchandising to founding a specialist consultancy opposite the BBC’s New Broadcasting House, Phil shares insider secrets on landing impactful coverage. We explore the shifting media ecosystem, including the rise of GB News, Times Radio and the transition of Radio 4 shows into chart-topping podcasts.

The conversation dives into the "recipe" for a successful broadcast pitch, the importance of diversity through the 50:50 charter and why "radio dates" are a relic of the past. Phil also provides invaluable media training tips, explaining how to "bridge" during interviews and why providing value as an expert is far more effective for brand awareness than constant name-dropping.

From a PR and communications perspective, this episode covers:

• The Power of Radio Listenership: Why shows like Nick Ferrari at Breakfast and Jeremy Vine often outperform BBC Breakfast and GMB in total reach.
• The GB News & Times Radio Phenomenon: Understanding the massive scale of TV audio feeds played out over digital radio.
• The Death of the "Radio Date": Moving away from rigid, timed campaign windows toward a flexible, news-agenda-led approach.
• DE&I in Broadcast: Navigating the BBC's 50:50 charter and why offering diverse spokespeople increases your chances of landing a slot.
• Broadcast-Ready Media Training: The art of bridging, the importance of background aesthetics in the era of filmed radio and respecting the "no-branding" rules of the BBC.
• The Growth of Podcast Integration: How stations like Radio 4 are using shows like Sliced Bread and Toast to bridge the gap between traditional radio and on-demand audio.

We discuss the "vibe" of modern broadcasting (where an interview from a laptop in the South of France Andrew Neil is now standard) and why having a "factory floor" mentality helps PRs understand the real business problems broadcast can solve. Phil also shares the " Independence Day" story of founding Broadcast Revolution and his vision for the next 10 years of audio.

This episode is relevant for professionals working in:

• PR Agencies & Consultancies: Looking to sharpen their broadcast pitching and media training services.
• In-House Comms Managers: Tasked with reaching mass audiences or specific C-suite targets through national audio.
• Spokespeople & CEOs: Preparing for TV or radio appearances, who need to understand the "bridging" technique.
• Broadcast Students: Seeking a realistic look at the UK media landscape in 2024 and beyond.

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Nigel Sarbutts is one of the Northwest's most respected PR veterans, with over three decades of experience leading agencies like Connectpoint and Burson-Marsteller. In this candid conversation, Nigel shares why he moved away from the traditional agency structure to build a digital matchmaking platform for PR freelancers. We explore the "Mega Trends" of revenue volatility and the atomisation of media, discussing why modern agencies must embrace flexible talent to stay competitive.

The conversation covers the reality of running a PR business through the pandemic, the "hidden" talent pool of independent consultants, and why regional agencies often have more "hustle" than their London counterparts. Nigel also breaks down the "Factory Tour Mentality"—the vital need for PR pros to get out from behind their desks to understand a client's real-world operational challenges, from broken labelling machines to distribution collapses.

From a PR and communications perspective, this episode covers:

• The Hollywood Model for PR: Why assembling specialised "dream teams" for specific projects is more effective than maintaining heavy fixed overheads.
• The Death of the Pyramid Agency: Why hiring a large tier of middling staff is becoming a "brave" (and potentially risky) business decision.
• Volatility in Demand: Managing the shift from fixed retainers to high-stakes project work and the diverse skill sets now required for every fee.
• Regional vs. London PR: Why "hustle," urgency, and entrepreneurial spirit define the North’s independent agency scene.
• The Factory Tour Mentality: Understanding the difference between a PR meeting and the client's actual business reality by walking the shop floor.
• The "Expanding Universe" of Media Relations: Why media relations isn't dead—it's just atomised across Substack, niche publishers, and social influencers.

Nigel shares his experiences as the Regional Chair of the PRCA and how he campaigned for freelancers during lockdown. We also discuss the power of "Vulnerability in Leadership," why the most engaged LinkedIn posts are often about failure rather than success, and Nigel's "vertical leap" into learning tech development later in his career.

This episode is relevant for professionals working in:

• PR Agency Owners & Directors: Looking to modernise their business model and improve profitability.
• Freelance PR Consultants: Seeking advice on career choices, pitching to agencies, and finding their niche.
• Marketing Managers (SMEs): Needing to access high-level PR expertise without the "big corp" agency price tag.
• PR Students & Career Changers: Interested in the evolving landscape of independent public relations.

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Clare Coupe brings a unique perspective to the "hot seat" of county council comms, having spent the bulk of her career in higher education marketing. We explore her journey from Blackburn College to Lancaster University, including her work launching UA92 with the Class of '92, and how she now manages the strategic messaging for one of the UK’s largest local authorities. Clare shares why "Lancashire, not London" isn't just a slogan, but a requirement for authenticity in a region that values straight-talking and transparency.

The conversation dives deep into the "Account Management" model Clare has implemented to restructure her team of 30 professionals. We discuss the challenge of speaking truth to power in a political environment, the importance of long-term planning over "quick wins" and how to handle subject matter experts who chase the next big thing. From managing a massive devolution consultation to preparing for county-wide elections, Clare explains how to keep the ship on course by keeping your eyes fixed on the audience.

From a PR and communications perspective, this episode covers:

• The Marketing-PR Pivot: Why an evidence-based marketing background is an asset for high-level communications roles.
• The "North Star" Strategy: Using audience needs as a guiding light to filter out 17 conflicting priorities into 3 or 4 core messages.
• Internal Team Restructuring: Implementing an "Account Management" model to act as an internal agency for council services.
• Relationship Management & Trust: How to earn a seat at the top table by adding value through respectful challenge and expert advice.
• The "Petrol Pump Effect": Strategies for managing stakeholders and subject matter experts who focus on tactics over strategy.
• Strategic vs. Operational Comms: Moving away from "sending out stuff" (the churn) toward meaningful, long-term impact.

Clare discusses the "Class of 92" institutional setup as a foundation for social mobility through comms and her recent leadership of Lancashire’s high-stakes devolution consultation. She also touches on the importance of "northern ambition" and why honesty and integrity are the core pillars of the Lancashire brand.

This episode is relevant for professionals working in:

• Public Sector & Local Government: Especially those navigating devolution, elections, or large team restructures.
• Marketing Managers: Looking to understand how their skills translate into the world of PR and Public Affairs.
• Heads of Comms: Seeking a blueprint for moving their department from a "service" to a "strategic partner."
• HE Professionals: Interested in student recruitment and institutional profile building.

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Shirah Bamber has built an impressive career navigating the complex intersection of public sector policy and private sector strategy. We explore her transition from youth work to managing national infrastructure comms for Network Plus, illustrating how a strategic mindset can solve the most deep-rooted organisational headaches. Shirah shares her "helicopter view" of PR, explaining why the best heads of comms treat every organisational challenge as their own.

The conversation delves into the high-stakes world of political PR and internal communications. Shirah breaks down how to manage a geographically disparate workforce of 5,000 people and why "ego and politics" are often the primary drivers of any board-level project. From sending press releases from a bus stop to pitching safety strategies to site workers in high-vis, this episode is a blueprint for becoming a trusted strategic advisor.

From a PR and communications perspective, this episode covers:

• Comms as Creative Problem Solving: Moving beyond the "we need a video" request to identify the underlying business ambitions or problems.
• The "Buy-in to the Why": How to motivate small teams with limited budgets by connecting their daily tasks to strategic outcomes.
• Navigating Political Nuance: The "art and the dance" of working with politicians and board directors to find common ground.
• Internal Comms for Disparate Workforces: Reaching 5,000+ staff across 86 locations using a mix of mobile-first intranets, physical magazines, and "site-level" engagement.
• The Importance of the "First 20%": Why asking the "dumb" questions and doing your homework creates the gravitas needed to lead a room.
• Rehearsed Confidence: Delivering advice with 100% conviction to ensure strategic plans are acted upon rather than disregarded.
• CATT Framework Diagram for Strategic Marketing Flow

Shirah shares a vivid memory of managing a political crisis via her phone while on a public bus, proving the need for confidence and rapid decision-making. We also discuss her new initiative, a Lancashire-based comms network, designed to provide "hive-minding" and support for senior PR professionals.

This episode is relevant for professionals working in:

• Public Sector & Local Government: Anyone navigating the complexities of policy and political stakeholder management.
• Internal Communications Managers: Tasked with engaging "hard-to-reach" employees in construction, utilities, or remote roles.
• Agency Directors: Looking to improve their "strategic advisor" status with clients.
• Strategic Comms Students: Interested in the blend of policy, psychology, and PR.

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Liz Riding has spent 28 years navigating the most demanding comms environment imaginable. From managing the fallout of 30 murder inquiries in a single year to the unprecedented social media storm of the Nicola Bulley case, Liz shares what it’s really like to be at the centre of a national crisis. We explore the shift from traditional journalism to the era of "citizen journalism" and the challenges of triaging 38,000 social media comments in just three weeks.

Beyond the tactics, this is a deeply human episode about the weight of public service. Liz speaks with extraordinary honesty about her own experience with workplace stress and the "vulnerability" required to lead a team through trauma. She explains why she chose to be open about her mental health to build a more resilient culture and why, despite the intensity, she still considers her job a privilege.

From a PR and communications perspective, this episode covers:

• The "Trust and Confidence" Metric: Why public sector PR prioritises reassurance over the bottom line and how to measure the intangible.
• Hyperlocal vs. National Comms: Cutting through "national noise" (and international misinformation) by focusing on community-led, targeted messaging.
• The Nicola Bulley Case Study: Lessons learned from managing a viral social media narrative that outpaces traditional media.
• Tackling Disinformation: The reality of triaging 38,000+ comments to find policing value amidst bots, conspiracy theorists, and "citizen journalists."
• The Evolution of Media Relations: How the Leveson Inquiry changed the "off the record" culture and the push to rebuild trust with reporters.
• Leading with Resilience: Why Liz chose to be visible in her own mental health journey to empower her team to do the same.

We discuss "Op Centurion" - a proactive campaign tackling antisocial behaviour, and how Lancashire Police uses social media to find over 70 high-risk missing people every year. Liz also shares her experience "speaking truth to power" as police staff in a rank-heavy organisation and why she transitioned from a front-counter role at Clitheroe to a senior leadership position.

This episode is relevant for professionals working in:

• Public Sector & Crisis Comms: Anyone managing reputation in high-consequence environments.
• Social Media Managers: Dealing with high-volume moderation, bots, and viral misinformation.
• PR Leaders: Interested in building team resilience, mental health awareness, and "vulnerable" leadership.
• Journalists & Students: Seeking to understand the complex relationship between the press and the police.

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We chart Andrew’s fascinating transition from a 22-year career in the golf industry, where he refereed the Ryder Cup, to helping global firms like PwC and the European Parliament master the art of storytelling. Andrew shares how a "dark period" in his mid-forties led to a complete career reinvention, proving that curiosity and a microphone can take you from local networking events to international stages in Zurich and New York.

The conversation breaks down why traditional business presentations often fail and how to use the "Three-Layered Cake" model to balance big-picture vision with tangible mini-stories. Andrew also provides a masterclass in "rehearsed spontaneity," explaining how to build a library of "parcels of wisdom" so you’re always ready for an elevator pitch or a high-stakes boardroom meeting.

From a PR and communications perspective, this episode covers:

• The Concept of Verbal PR: Understanding how your spoken words and "musicality" of voice serve as your most immediate public relations tool.
• The Three-Layered Cake Model: A structural framework for presentations: The Library (small stories), The Machinery (facts/structure), and The Big Picture (vision/values).
• Overcoming Storytelling Objections: Why storytelling isn't "fluffy nonsense" but an essential influencing skill for engineers, accountants, and CEOs.
• The "Less is More" Principle: Using the "Carving an Elephant" metaphor to strip away irrelevant data and reach the essence of your message.
• Data Storytelling: Insights from Dean Ambrose’s TED Talk on how to visualise data to trigger emotional audience reactions.
• Practice Makes Permanent: Why bad habits in communication are hard to break and how to use "rehearsed spontaneity" to stay authentic.

We also discuss the "Imposter Syndrome" Andrew felt when being compared to Simon Sinek and why Sir Ken Robinson’s famous TED Talk remains the gold standard for public speaking. Andrew shares a fresh example of how a story about a one-eyed horse can be the perfect analogy for a business consultancy's potential.

This episode is relevant for professionals working in:

• Future Leaders & Management: Those looking to transition from technical roles to leadership positions.
• Sales & Business Development: Professionals needing to refine their elevator pitch and handle objections.
• PR & Marketing: Anyone tasked with building "Thought Leadership" for their clients or executives.
• Career Changers: Anyone considering a mid-life reinvention or career pivot.

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We dive into the practical realities of managing a borough-wide brand, starting with Rachel’s "baptism of fire" career in Manchester journalism to her current role putting Burnley on the national stage. Rachel explains why place branding must be separate from council branding to remain authentic and how she used the 2020 pandemic as an opportunity to "brand her way through" the gloom.

The conversation explores the power of the "Burnley Bondholders" scheme (a private-sector-led initiative that fuels the town's marketing budget) and how a small, creative team uses video, high-quality print, and social media to reach millions. Rachel also shares the story behind setting up a dedicated "Filming in Burnley" office to attract major productions like Brassic and Netflix documentaries.

From a PR and communications perspective, this episode covers:

• Separating Place and Council Brands: Why a bridge between the two is essential for avoiding public skepticism and maintaining a positive narrative.
• The Bondholder Model: How charging businesses to be part of a brand creates value, skin in the game, and a sustainable marketing budget.
• Content-Led Strategy: Using video to "see it to believe it" and re-editing the town’s visual narrative away from old clichés.
• Filming as a PR Asset: Setting up a filming permit system to showcase a town's diverse locations and generate community reinvestment.
• Engaging the Next Generation: The birth of Burnley Social and the Future Leaders program to retain young talent.

We also discuss the surprisingly high demand for print media through Burnley Lifestyle magazine and why the town put a drag artist on the front cover to signal its progressive, inclusive identity. Rachel provides a "golden lesson" on staying humble and being willing to pivot based on real-time feedback from the community.

This episode is relevant for professionals working in:

• Local Government & Economic Development: Looking for models of self-sustaining place marketing.
• PR and Communications: Interested in brand perception and changing long-standing public narratives.
• Place Marketers: Seeking inspiration on how to build a business network (Bondholders).
• Creative Industries: Interested in how towns attract TV and film production.

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We explore the evolution of media measurement over the last 25 years, from physical press cuttings to AI-driven insights. Steph shares her journey from an art history background to becoming a "curator of data," explaining why curiosity is the most essential trait for modern comms professionals.

The conversation covers the practical realities of measuring PR on a shoestring budget, including how to use free tools to tell a more compelling story to clients. Steph also breaks down why the "So What?" test is vital for any campaign and how the PESO model provides a framework for understanding integrated communications outcomes.

From a PR and communications perspective, this episode covers:

• The Evolution of Measurement: Transitioning from manual press cuttings to automated digital indexing and OCR technology.
• The PESO Model in Practice: Understanding the intersection of Paid, Earned, Shared, and Owned media.
• Overcoming the "Intangible" Label: Moving from outputs (volume) to outtakes (thinking) and outcomes (doing).
• Affordable SEO & Insights: How small agencies can use Google Trends for benchmarking and market research.
• The Role of AMEC: Using the Integrated Evaluation Framework to set SMART objectives from the start.

We also discuss the shift towards data visualisation and why a "one-pager" often carries more weight than a 50-page report. Steph provides specific examples of using search data to compare brand awareness for educational institutions and how social listening can uncover unprompted consumer insights for global brands.

This episode is relevant for professionals working in:

• PR and Communications: Especially those struggling to justify budgets to stakeholders.
• Small Business Owners & Agencies: Looking for "hacks" to access high-level data on a budget.
• Marketing Students: Interested in the technical side of media evaluation and consultancy.
• Public Sector Comms: Focused on behavior change and community engagement.

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The podcast offers insights into PR, marketing, and communications and it is shaped by the communities Viva serves—both geographically and across key sectors such as healthcare, advanced manufacturing, education, and the public sector.

The podcast highlights Viva's ethos that PR should be impact-driven, and guests offer tips on how to gain real-world results without necessarily relying on huge budgets or celebrity names.

In this episode, Viva's Managing Director Tony Garner introduces the series with fellow Director Lucie Rohani. They discuss what PR is to Viva and what you can expect from the series.

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