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Our guest today is David Schwartz, who is a genomic scientist and emeritus professor of chemistry and genetics at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. Dave received his Ph.D. from Columbia University in 1985 and he invented an important method for separating large DNA molecules called pulsed field gel electrophoresis. Dave was a professor at NYU in the chemistry department until 1999 when he moved to UW-Madison, where he founded and directed the Genomic Sciences Training Program.

In this full-length interview, Dave talks about his life growing up and interest in science, his early research developing pulsed field gel electrophoresis, then his move into imaging single DNA molecules through the optical mapping system, and where genomics has come and where it’s going. He also gives advice to students interested in science — spoiler alert — run toward those hard problems! 

Highlights of the episode:

*Susan introduces the Science Fare podcast and opens with a quote from our guest who says scientists are the intellectual fire fighters - they run toward the hard problems [0:01];

*Susan introduces guest David Schwartz, a genomic scientist and emeritus professor of chemistry and genetics at the University of Wisconsin - Madison and he was also Susan’s Ph.D. advisor [1:07];         

*Dave tells us about his life growing up and how Mr. Wizard and his older brother sparked his interest in science [3:42];

*His experience going to Bronx Science in NYC — “the most competitive academic environment” [6:36];

*The beginning of the idea of pulsed field gel electrophoresis during his senior year of college — he was at Hampshire College but spent senior year at college [7:40];

*Dave went to UCSD to pursue this idea more [11:28];

*Dave moved back east, transfers to Columbia University to continue his Ph.D. program and refined pulsed field gel electrophoresis there [13:02];

*Dave became very interested in the genetics and biology — what were the new problems that physical science could solve? [14:30];

*Susan makes the point that Dave’s new genomic approach was hitting this middle scale — in between the sequence of DNA fragments and cytogenetic approaches [17:28];

*Dave talks about why certain parts of the genome were originally called junk, and the importance of running toward hard problems and doing “dangerous science” [18:50];

*Dave moved on to a research position at the Carnegie Institution of Washington (now Carnegie Science) and began using microscopy to image DNA molecules [20:20];

*The beginnings of optical mapping and Dave’s move to NYU [24:00];

*Why working with large DNA molecules was so hard [29:29];

*The link between single molecules and what happens in meiosis, something students learn about in high school science [31:37];

*When will the “perfect genome” be cheap and easy? [35:40];

*Dave’s advice for high school students interested in science [40:40]

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In this mini episode, host Susan Keatley gives an overview of what happens in meiosis and genomic scientist David Schwartz talks about how genomics enabled biologists to make discoveries through, in part, visualizing single DNA molecules. Schwartz connects the ability to visualize single DNA molecules to what is going on when a cell goes through meiosis. 

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And, check out the Science Fare Podcast website! 

Our guest today is Jan Drgona, who joins us today from Johns Hopkins University. 

Jan is an associate professor in the department of civil and systems engineering, and is also at the Ralph S O’Connor Sustainable Energy Institute. 

In this full-length interview, Jan talks with us about the challenges in sustainably heating and cooling buildings, and how physics and scientific machine learning can help. 

Highlights of the episode:

*Susan introduces the Science Fare podcast and frames the idea that a building’s materials play a role in the ubiquitous challenge of fighting the second law of thermodynamics [0:01];

*Susan introduces guest Jan Drgona, an engineering professor at Johns Hopkins University who is studying sustainable energy use in buildings [1:30];                                *Jan shares his “winding” path to becoming a scientist, from wide-ranging interests in science as a kid to knowing he wanted to be a scientist due to a great high school chemistry experience and interests in math and computers [2:29];

*A lucky encounter conversing with another Ph.D. student during the coffee break at a scientific workshop who was working in modeling physical processes in buildings and was looking to collaborate with someone with Jan’s background and skills [5:12];

*Susan reflects on the power of in-person scientist meetings leading to multi-decade collaborations [7:28];

*Jan talks about the fascinating and important interdisciplinary research going on at the Ralph S O’Connor Sustainable Energy Institute [8:30];

*Susan sets up the problem Jan is working on — the difficulty in sustainably heating and cooling buildings — and Jan explains why building energy use is often inefficient and what the problem-solving opportunities are [9:20];

*The hundreds or thousands degrees of freedom in building HVAC — far higher than in driving a car (more like 12 degrees of freedom)! And how one human can’t really manage this in a static rules-based way [12:23];

*Why we often need to wear sweaters in buildings in summer and other problems with the current, more conservative approach to HVAC [14:30];

*Let’s talk about these problems in terms of something high school students are learning — the second law of thermodynamics [15:30];

*Combining thermal mass and thermal resistance of building materials can help make operation more efficient [19:00];

*HVAC type — electrification and coefficient of performance [19:31];

*Susan introduces Next Generation High School Science Standard PS 3-4, which states that students should be able to plan and conduct an investigation to provide evidence that when two components of different temperature are combined within a closed system, transfer of thermal energy results in a more uniform energy distribution among the components in the system — buildings can be a great setting for this kind of investigation! [21:49];

*Jan describes scientific machine learning and how it’s different from regular machine learning and illustrates with a concrete example of a building he worked on [23:30];    

*Jan explains that scientific machine learning combines the guarantees of the physics with the adaptability of machine learning [30:16];     

*Susan asks what would be the most complicated building to deal with in terms HVAC? One kind, Jan explains, are data centers [31:55];

*Jan’s hopes for the near future [34:27];

*Susan asks, what do you enjoy most about working in science? Jan says the people and the community, and the chance to live in many different places and countries and meet many different kinds of people. [39:39];

*Jan’s advice for high school students interested in science — follow your passion — your path is important! [43:20];      

*Closing remarks, listener feedback information, and acknowledgment of the Science Fare team [45:47]

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Our guest today is Jan Drgona, who joins us today from Johns Hopkins University. 

Jan is an associate professor in the department of civil and systems engineering, and is also at the Ralph S O’Connor Sustainable Energy Institute. 

Jan’s research focuses on energy management in buildings and he’s working on developing scientific machine learning methods to model energy management which turns out is very complex. In this mini episode, I ask Jan about what makes a building complicated to heat and cool, and describes the various factors that make temperature control a challenge, and hints at how physics and machine learning can help. Tune in next week for the full-length interview when Jan talks about making energy use in buildings sustainable and how scientific machine learning and problem solving with an engineering approach and mindset can help.

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And, check out the Science Fare Podcast website! 

In this full-length interview, Baltimore City police officer and education doctorate holder Tris Hann talks about his background in math education and explains how physics is used to investigate motor vehicle crashes.

Highlights of the episode:

*Susan introduces the Science Fare podcast and frames the idea of “physics world vs. real world” where ideal equations meet messy reality [0:01];

*Susan introduces guest Tris Hahn, a Baltimore City police officer and former math teacher and will tell us about how police officers use physics to investigate motor vehicle crashes [1:34];

*Tris shares his background in education and his transition from teaching math to becoming a police officer and why real-world applications of math and physics were central to his teaching philosophy [2:16];

*A listener question from a physics teacher — he asks about which actual measurements are taken at accident scenes and Tris explains [3:37];

*What investigators measure: area of impact, final rest positions, skid marks, and debris patterns [5:10];

*Why crash reconstruction often relies on calculating minimum speeds, not exact speeds [6:10];

*The equations the police use are essentially the same kinematics equations students learn in high school physics [7:32];

*Deep dive into skid marks: what they reveal about braking, vehicle motion, and driver behavior [8:46];

*A real-world crash example involving extreme speeding and how physics overturned assumptions about fault [13:38];

*Determining area of impact and danger of pedestrian being struck [17:55];

*A student listener question highlights the gap between idealized physics problems and messy real-world conditions [19:49];

*A full worked example: reconstructing a pedestrian crash using physics principles [25:03];

*Comparing outcomes at 66 mph vs. 30 mph—how speed exponentially affects stopping distance [32:44];

*The dangers of distracted driving, including statistics on phone use and crash risk [37:30];

*Closing remarks, listener feedback information, and acknowledgment of the Science Fare team [39:00]

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Highlights of this mini episode:

*Susan introduces the Science Fare podcast and explains the mini-episode/full-episode format [~0:30];

*Susan introduces guest Tris Hahn, a Baltimore City police officer, and explains how physics is used in crash investigation [~1:10];

*A listener question from a physics teacher prompts discussion of real-world accident reconstruction [~1:55];

*What measurements are taken at serious crash scenes, including area of impact, final rest positions, and debris fields [~2:30];

*Why investigators measure everything—from skid marks to pedestrian travel distance—to reconstruct what happened [~3:10];

*How physics helps determine not just what happened, but who may be at fault [~3:45];

*The misconception that “right of way” always determines fault in a collision [~4:20];

*Introduction to perception-reaction time and its importance in crash analysis [~4:50];

*How the brain—not just the eyes—processes roadway information and influences driver decisions [~5:20];

*A real crash case: a driver turns onto a roadway and is struck by an oncoming car traveling at an extreme speed [~5:55];

*How investigators determined the striking vehicle was traveling over 100 mph based on physical evidence [~6:30];

*Why the turning driver was not considered at fault despite not having the right of way [~6:45];

*How assumptions about typical driving speeds factor into “reasonable behavior” in physics-based investigations [~6:55];

*Episode wrap-up, listener feedback information, and acknowledgment of the Science Fare team [~7:00].

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Dr. Elizabeth Catania is a neuroscience researcher, assistant professor, Director of Undergraduate Studies and Director of Independent Studies at Vanderbilt University.

In this episode, guest host Lucy Pohl, who is the high school intern for the podcast, interviews Dr. Catania talks about her research and path as a scientist.

Highlights of the episode:

*High school intern Lucy Pohl introduces Dr. Elizabeth Catania of Vanderbilt University and outlines her background in neuroscience and education [~1:20];

*Lucy asks Dr. Catania about how her passion for science originated and how she became interested in neuroscience [2:42];

*Dr. Catania describes starting college as an English major and not discovering her love of science until later [~3:20];

*How an introductory neuroscience course taken “just for fun” changed her academic trajectory and led her to switch majors [~4:05];

*Why students don’t need to “find their thing” in middle school or high school—and why trying new subjects matters [4:58];

*Lucy asks about Dr. Catania’s postdoctoral work at the Vanderbilt Kennedy Center and how working with individuals with autism influenced her approach to neuroscience [~6:20];

*Connecting basic neuroscience research to real people and real-world challenges [7:18];

*Lucy asks Dr. Catania to explain what the nervous system is for students who may not have studied it in depth [~8:05];

*What the nervous system does: how neurons, sensory input, and brain processing allow us to interact with the world [~8:35];

*Dr. Catania discusses comparative neurobiology and how studying different animals helps scientists understand how nervous systems are built and specialized [9:39];

*Lucy asks about technologies that have helped scientists understand the nervous system, including MRI and genetic manipulation [11:55];

*What brain circuitry is and how connections between neurons drive behavior [~13:05];

*How illusions (like the blue/black vs. gold/white dress) reveal how the brain processes sensory information [~14:35];

*Using fMRI to measure connectivity and activity in the brain—and what scientists mean by “higher” or “lower” circuit strength [16:13];

*Why understanding brain circuitry is critical for studying conditions like autism and ADHD [~17:35];

*Connecting neuroscience research to hierarchical systems—from behavior down to genes [~19:05];

*The “cold dog and fireplace” example—moving from behavior to brain regions to cells, proteins, and genes [20:31];

*Discussion of women in STEM: progress made, ongoing challenges, and mentorship as a source of pride [~23:05];

*Field-specific differences in representation of women, including contrasts with engineering [25:01];

*Advice for middle and high school students: follow your interests, don’t fear detours, and allow yourself to change direction [~26:05];

*Incorporating humanities into science education and the importance of communicating science clearly [~28:05];

*Vanderbilt’s first-year core course, “Science, Technology and Value,” and creating a common intellectual experience across disciplines [29:40];

*Why integrating science with humanities benefits both STEM and non-STEM students [32:01];

*Majors that bridge science and humanities, including communication of science and technology and medicine, health, and society [34:17];

Recommended science books for students, including The Beak of the Finch and Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers[~37:05];

*Advice for students who feel pressured to choose a single academic pathway too early [38:42];

*Current neuroscience research Dr. Catania finds exciting: brain organoids and the future of personalized medicine [~41:05];

*Closing reflections on science, humanities, and intellectual curiosity [43:18];

*Episode wrap-up, listener feedback information, and acknowledgments of the Science Fare intern team [~43:50].

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Dr. Elizabeth Catania is a neuroscience researcher, assistant professor, Director of Undergraduate Studies and Director of Independent Studies at Vanderbilt University. Dr. Catania earned her BA in Neuroscience from the University of Delaware, where she originally started as an English major, and earned her PhD in Neuroscience from Vanderbilt University. She also did a post-doctoral fellowship at the Vanderbilt Kennedy Center’s Treatment and Research Institute for Autism Spectrum Disorder. She has researched how brain circuitry relates to social-emotional well-being. She currently teaches courses on nervous system development and endocrinology. 

In this MINI episode, Dr. Catania talks about her research, being a woman in science today, and her career path. 

Highlights of the episode:

*Susan introduces the Science Fair podcast, its mission, and the mini-episode/full-episode format [0:03];

*High school intern Lucy Pohl introduces today’s guest, Dr. Elizabeth Catania of Vanderbilt University, and summarizes her background in neuroscience and education [~0:55];

*Lucy asks Dr. Catania about how her passion for science originated and how she became interested in neuroscience [~1:45];

*Dr. Catania describes her early interests in the humanities and starting college as an English major [2:23];

*How an introductory neuroscience course—taken largely by chance—sparked Dr. Catania’s love of neuroscience and led her to change majors late in college [~4:04];

*Lucy asks Dr. Catania to explain what the nervous system is for listeners who may be unfamiliar with it [~4:30];

*What the nervous system is and how the brain, spinal cord, and nerves allow organisms to sense and respond to the world [4:47];

*Lucy asks about Dr. Catania’s research on the evolution of the nervous system [~5:40];

*Introduction to comparative neurobiology and how studying different animals helps scientists understand nervous system structure and function [6:49];

*Lucy asks about Dr. Catania’s experiences as a woman in STEM and how the field has changed over time [~7:30];

*Progress and remaining challenges for women in science, including leadership and representation, and moments of pride as a mentor [9:03];

*Advice for middle and high school students about following interests, changing paths, and not fearing academic detours [~9:15];

*Lucy asks about current neuroscience research Dr. Catania finds especially exciting [~10:50];

*Brain organoids: growing “mini-brains” from human cells and how they may transform neuroscience research and personalized medicine [11:17];

*Lucy reflects on the conversation and thanks Dr. Catania for sharing her story and insights [~13:05];

*Closing remarks, listener feedback information, sponsorship details, and acknowledgments of the Science Fare intern team [13:40]

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Works cited in this conversation:

The Emperor of All Maladies: A Biography of Cancer by Siddhartha Mukherjee

Janet Rowley and her work on cancer genetics 

FLT3 inhibitors: a paradigm for the development of targeted therapeutics for paediatric cancer, in the European Journal of Cancer, March 2004 

The biology and targeting of FLT3 in pediatric leukemia, in Frontiers in Oncology, September 2014 

Episode highlights:

*Susan introduces Pat [1:58];

*Pat talks about his journey to becoming a physician and scientist focusing on pediatric leukemia [5:08];

*What is leukemia? Pat gives us an overview [8:46];

*Why leukemia has been at the forefront of cancer research and treatment [11:58];

*Pat’s early research and clinical work in leukemia [13:38];

*When, how, and why cancer treatment shifted from a one-size-fits-all approach to something more targeted [15:45];

*Some of the specifics of Pat’s work — what is FLT3? Why is it important in leukemia? [21:12];

*Pat’s work in developing clinical trials for treatments for children with leukemia — bench to bedside and back again [28:00];

*Success with the small molecule lestaurtinib, a first-generation FLT3 inhibitor [30:10];

*Pat’s group partnered with another company to produce a monoclonal antibody that could target FLT3 [31:12];

*Main challenge with both treatments (and challenge with all cancer therapies) is cancer developing resistance to treatment — people try to prevent resistance with multimodal treatments [32:20];

*Leads to the idea of personalized therapy — in each person, what are the genetic characteristics driving the cancer and can those be targeted with a cocktail tailored to that person? [35:40];

*Liquid biopsy’s potential in helping us see solid tumor cancers earlier and more comprehensively [36:58];

*Pat’s reflections on working in “translational medicine” — as a physician and a scientist — and the importance of bedside to bench as well as bench to bedside [39:21];

*How working as a scientist in academia is different from working in industry [43:25];

*What Pat is working on now, and his hopes for a decade or two out [50:04];

*High school science portion of the episode — Focusing on leukemia as an example, Pat tells us how changes in the DNA sequence of a gene can result in cancer. This connects to one of the Next Generation High School Science Standards in Life Science, which states that students should be able to construct an explanation based on evidence for how the structure of DNA determines the structure of proteins which carry out the essential functions of life through systems of specialized cells [55:23];

*Pat shares a memory from high school science [1:02:43];

*Pat’s advice to high school students today who are interested in science [1:04:05]

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Pat earned a bachelor’s degree in engineering from the United States Military Academy in West Point, NY, and a master’s degree in philosophy and politics from Oxford University in England. He then went on to get his medical degree from Medical University of South Carolina College of Medicine and then completed his internship and residency training in pediatrics at Johns Hopkins Hospital, followed by completion of fellowship training in pediatrics hematology/oncology in the joint Johns Hopkins/National Cancer Institute program. He joined the Johns Hopkins faculty as an instructor, and was then promoted to assistant, associate, and full professor of oncology and pediatrics and the director of the Pediatric Leukemia Program at the Sidney Kimmel Comprehensive Cancer Center, with a focus on childhood leukemia, which is a cancer of the blood and bone marrow. During his time at Hopkins, Pat has mentored many students who went on to impactful careers in academic and industry, and was honored for his teaching by several awards and being selected to teach for the premiere national board review course for pediatric hematology/oncology. 

His lab found that a gene called FLT3 (which was initially discovered by Dr. Brown's mentor, Dr. Don Small) is especially important in certain kinds of childhood leukemia that are especially hard to cure. His lab also identified and helped develop promising combinations of standard chemotherapy drugs and FLT3 inhibitors that can work together to more effectively kill leukemia cells. 

Episode highlights:

*Susan introduces Pat [0:56];

*Pat gives an overview of leukemia — what is it? And how does it help us understand other cancers? [3:36];

*Pat explains how DNA mutations lead to cancer, and how those same mutations guide scientists to discover targeted cancer therapies [6:12]

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Our guests today are Sam and Meg Lubner. They are cancer doctors, and they are married!

Sam is a hematologist and oncologist at University of Wisconsin Health, and an associate professor at the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health.

Meg is a professor of radiology at the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health in the section of abdominal imaging and intervention.

Meg and Sam discuss how physics, chemistry, biology, and data science come together in modern medicine. Through real-world examples—CT scans, genetic mutations in cancer, and the use of AI in medical imaging—students see how foundational science concepts are applied to diagnose disease, design treatments, and make evidence-based decisions.

Best fit for:

High school biology, chemistry, physics, or interdisciplinary science; introductory college science courses

Key themes:

Scientific modeling, structure–property relationships, genetics, medical imaging, AI and ethics, science communication

*Susan introduces Sam Lubner, oncologist, and Meg Lubner, radiologist [0:38]; 

*Sam describes his unconventional path to medicine, from history major and sports radio to oncology [2:58]; 

*Sam discusses how his career evolved toward education, mentorship, and student leadership [5:19]; 

*Meg explains why radiology appealed to her, combining physics, chemistry, and patient care [7:44]; 

*Meg describes modern radiology, including image-guided procedures and patient interaction [10:05]; 

*Meg discusses the importance of mentorship and what made her teachers so influential [12:20]; 

*CT, ultrasound, MRI, fluoroscopy, and how different imaging tools answer different clinical questions [14:34]; 

*Life in the radiology reading room: collaboration, teaching, and learning in a shared space [16:48]; 

*Why physical proximity and shared workspaces matter for learning and patient care [19:02]; 

*Sam describes his roles as oncologist, fellowship director, and dean for students [21:21]; 

*The importance of understanding patients’ goals, quality of life, and side effects during cancer care [23:49]; 

*Team-based cancer care and close collaboration between oncologists, surgeons, and radiologists [26:07]; 

*Meg reflects on the emotional weight of oncology and Sam’s strengths as a communicator [28:32]; 

*Sam discusses compassion, physician wellness, and the human side of medical practice [30:54]; 

*Sam and Meg share insights from their talk on improving communication between oncologists and radiologists [32:19]; 

*Why word choice matters in radiology reports and how certain terms can alarm patients [34:41]; 

*The meaning of “progressive disease” and why precision in language is critical [37:04]; 

*Sam explains why clinicians should order imaging with clear hypotheses and specific questions [39:22]; 

*Radiologists as consultants: tailoring imaging and biopsies to clinical questions [41:43]; 

*Meg explains the physics behind CT scans and how ionizing radiation creates images [44:34]; 

*Hounsfield units, tissue density, and how radiologists distinguish cysts, tumors, fat, air, and bone [46:48]; 

*Radiology as “low-power microscopy” and the value of radiologic–pathologic correlation [49:16]; 

*Sam discusses targeted cancer therapies and genetic mutations such as KRAS [51:18]; 

*How basic biology, protein structure, and genetics drive modern cancer treatments [53:21]; 

*Meg explains how AI is currently used to triage imaging studies and detect urgent findings [55:40]; 

*AI tools for tumor detection, measurement, and automated image analysis [57:53]; 

*Opportunistic screening: extracting cardiovascular and metabolic risk data from CT scans [1:00:17]; 

*Bias, validation, and challenges in deploying AI tools in clinical practice [1:02:25]; 

*Advice for students interested in science: curiosity, persistence, and asking good questions [1:04:48]; 

*Why science matters—and encouragement for young scientists not to get discouraged [1:07:13];

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Our guests today are Sam and Meg Lubner. They are cancer doctors, and they are married!

Sam is a hematologist and oncologist at University of Wisconsin Health, and an associate professor at the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health where he directs the Hematology and Medical Oncology fellowship program. He specializes in gastrointestinal malignancies. 

Meg is a professor of radiology at the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health in the section of abdominal imaging and intervention. Meg works in the field of radiomics — a field focused on the extraction of quantitative information from diagnostic images — and her research interests include new technology in CT scans — which means using radiation like X-rays for instance to create detailed, cross-sectional images of the body.

In this MINI episode, Sam and Meg talk about the basic science behind how their cancer-fighting tools — imaging and targeted cancer therapies. This basic science is part of the high school science curriculum — the radiation that is part of the electromagnetic spectrum, and the notion that DNA mutates. 

Tune in on Thursday for the full-length interview!

Highlights of the episode:

*Susan introduces Sam and Meg and today’s topic [1:30];

*Meg talks about imaging and how powerful it is as a tool in cancer care [3:25];

*Sam talks about targeted cancer therapy [9:46];

*Meg talks about changes in sampling of tumor tissue and imaging methods to try and maximize capturing the genetic profile of the tumor [13:02]

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Our guest today is Kelly Knudson. This episode is an edited version of an episode released during Season One of the podcast. 

Kelly is a professor of Anthropology in the School of Human Evolution and Social Change at Arizona State University, and director of the Center for Bioarchaeological Research and the Archaeological Chemistry Laboratory.

In this full-length interview, Kelly talks about what led her to pursue archaeological chemistry and shares how chemistry data helped her team reconstruct what happened at a 2,000-year-old site in Peru. She talks about how isotopes and the periodicity of atomic radii make this work possible. She then gives some advice to high school students interested in science. 

Resources:

Center for Bioarchaeological Research at ASU 

Kelly’s paper in PNAS entitled “Feasting and the evolution of cooperative social organizations circa 2300 B.P. in Paracas culture, southern Peru

The Periodic Table on the NIST website 

Radium Girls by Kate Moore 

Highlights of the episode:

*Susan introduces Kelly [1:15];

*The field school in Chile that led Kelly to study archaeological chemistry at the University of Wisconsin-Madison and pursue archaeological chemistry as a career at Arizona State University [1:55];

*How a summer program can have such an impact on one’s trajectory [6:10];

*What Kelly’s job is like — directing the archaeological chemistry laboratory and teaching both undergraduates, graduate students, and post-doctoral scholars in the classroom and lab [6:50];

*How one learns to run a lab [9:20];

*Discussing Kelly’s paper in PNAS on feasting and social cooperation in Peru 2,000 years ago — how Strontium isotopes helped her team understand what happened at this archaeological site [10:40];

*What Kelly and her team found based on the archaeological and isotopic evidence [16:58];

*How to make strontium isotope maps of an area — in Peru, guinea pigs are an ideal way to do this [20:38];

*How the archaeological and chemical evidence complemented each other in this study [29:00];

*Why looting at archaeological sites is so problematic [31:14];

*What happens when the archaeological and chemical evidence are at odds with each other? [31:40];

*How archaeological chemistry as a field has changed during Kelly’s career [36:05];

*What excites Kelly the most about his work [37:08];

*Susan asks about the Arizona state high school chemistry standard that asks students to explain how the structure of atoms relates to patterns and properties seen in the periodic table [38:27];

*Kelly explains that since strontium has a similar atomic radius as calcium because they are both in the same column of the periodic table — periodic trends! — strontium can substitute for calcium in bones [39:03];

*Kelly’s advice for high school students interested in science, and especially something specific, like for example, archaeological chemistry [42:40]

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Our guest today is Kelly Knudson. This episode is an edited version of an episode released during Season One of the podcast. 

Kelly is a professor of Anthropology in the School of Human Evolution and Social Change at Arizona State University, and director of the Center for Bioarchaeological Research and the Archaeological Chemistry Laboratory.

In this MINI episode, Kelly talks to us about how archaeologists use strontium isotopes to determine where things found at an archaeological site are from, and draws on the concept of periodic trends, specifically atomic radius, to talk about how strontium isotopes can substitute for calcium in bone. 

Tune in on Thursday for the full-length interview!

Highlights of the episode:

*Susan introduces Kelly and today’s topic [0:56];

*Susan gives a quick overview of isotopes [2:20];

*Kelly talks about how strontium isotopes help archaeologists determine where things at an archaeological site are from [4:00]; 

*Susan asks about the Arizona state high school chemistry standard that asks students to explain how the structure of atoms relates to patterns and properties seen in the periodic table [9:22];

*Kelly explains that since strontium has a similar atomic radius as calcium because they are both in the same column of the periodic table — periodic trends! — strontium can substitute for calcium in bones [9:50]

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Our guest today is Richard Edden 

Richard is a professor in the department of Neuroradiology at Johns Hopkins University. 

He uses a tool — a technology, a method— called Magnetic Resonance Spectroscopy (MRS) to study the brain. Richard’s group focuses on both method development — how can they make MRS better? More informative? — and also what the specific findings mean for brain health. 

Resources:

Edden Research Group Web Page

Pubmed

Pubmed Central 

Healthy Brain and Child Development Study 

Highlights of the episode:

*Susan introduces Richard and today’s topic [1:20];

*Richard talks about his path to becoming a scientist, starting with growing up in Hampshire, England [2:18];

*On how a postdoc is a chance to go to the edge of what are qualified to do — go sideways — [15:30];

*What it’s like to work in a big lab [17:56];

*How interpreting an NMR spectrum is like solving a puzzle [18:50];

*How electronegativity is fundamental to NMR spectroscopy [24:12];

*Richard’s group has worked on interpreting magnetic resonance spectra taken on brain tissue [36:33];

*Magnetic resonance spectrum peaks — in brain tissue, one of the strongest peaks is from creatine [39:00];

*Richard began to ask, what can we do about some of those weaker signals in the spectra? [42:17]:

*Improving methods for looking at GABA, an inhibitory neurotransmitter, in the brain [42:30];

*Richard’s primary interest in the methods vs the neuroscience led to a a funny thing that happened at a conference [46:20];

*How do changes between people in the amount of GABA relate to people’s ability to do particular tasks? [48:43];

*The approach Richard’s group has taken with Hadamard encoding (subtraction editing) to amplify the GABA signal [51:13];

*We made the experiment twice as fast because we eliminated waste in the old way of doing things [59:00];

*How Richard had the idea for Hadamard encoding years before putting it in practice with GABA in the brain [1:01:42];

*It’s always better to be doing something than not doing something, but doing starts you thinking and generating more ideas [1:03:45];

*These methods are being used in many studies, including the Healthy Brain and Childhood Development study - national level, 25 universities - recruiting pregnant mothers to study brains of thousands of babies during the first five years of life [1:04:15];

*Listener question from Lucy Pohl, an 11th grader at Nightingale-Bamford school in Manhattan: What issues in science have become more significant to you as a result of your research? [1:09:01];

*Richard gives advice to students interested in a career in science [1:12:34];

*Resources for listeners to learn more about Richard’s work [1:20:12]

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Our guest today is Richard Edden. 

Richard is a professor in the department of Neuroradiology at Johns Hopkins University. 

He uses a tool — a technology, a method— called Magnetic Resonance Spectroscopy (MRS) to study the brain. Richard’s group focuses on both method development — how can they make MRS better? More informative? — and also what the specific findings mean for brain health. 

In this MINI episode, Richard talks to us about spectroscopy and a particular kind of spectroscopy: nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy, also known as NMR (and more familiarly, MRI.) Richard talks about why electronegativity, a concept taught in high school and early college chemistry, is essential to how NMR works.  

Tune in on Thursday for the full-length interview!

Highlights of the episode:

*Susan introduces Richard and today’s topic [0:56];

*Susan explains electronegativity and phrases the question to Richard [1:45];

*Richard answers, beginning with an explanation of spectroscopy, starting with the visible light spectrum [3:12];

*Richard describes NMR and how electronegativity influences it [4:23];

*Richard talks about the features of molecules in our body and how NMR can help distinguish them [8:44]

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Our guest today is Stephen Steiner: President, CEO, and founder of Aerogel Technologies. Stephen has a PhD from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Materials Chemistry and Engineering which he completed in the Department of Aeronautics and Astronautics, and a Master’s Degree in Materials Science and Engineering, also from MIT. 

Stephen has such an interesting story of really falling in love with science at a young age and doing so many interesting things on both the discovery side and the business side of science, really focused on aerogels. 

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Stephen’s Aerogel Website 

Photo of an aerogel - looks holographic

Aerogel Protects Chocolate from Blowtorch video

Search “Supercritical Magic Carpet” on Youtube 

Search “World’s Lightest Solid” on Youtube 

Highlights of the episode:

*Susan introduces Stephen and today’s topic [1:24];

*Stephen tells us what aerogels are [3:20];

*Stephen talks about his middle school science fair projects which he did for extra credit, not because he liked science — at first! [4:27];

*Stephen’s high school science fair projects, now that he liked science! [6:09];

*Stephen’s foray into competitive science seminar with a teacher who taught him the algorithm for creativity [9:30];

*Things to consider when picking a research topic [12:23];

*Stephen’s first foray into making an aerogel [15:28]; 

*Removing a liquid from a gel while preserving the gel-like structure in a process called supercritical drying [21:10];

*Stephen decides to make an autoclave for supercritical drying [24:58];

*After FORTY tries, Stephen makes his first aerogel in his basement, at age 17! [30:00];

*Having a do-it-yourself attitude and persistence [35:14];

*Stephen’s experience with normal science classes while he was conducting real research in his basement in middle and high school [37:05];

*Undergrad institutions and what it takes to get in [45:04];

*Stephen applying to graduate programs and getting into MIT [49:05];

*Senior, established scientists like to help younger people who reach out for help [52:52];

*Stephen’s commitment to sharing knowledge and making knowledge accessible [53:22];

*Aerogels and their interesting properties [1:01:32];

*Why aerogels are such good insulators — the Knudsen effect [1:04:52];

*How do properties of elements perpetuate in aerogels made out of those elements? [1:10:27];

*How aerogels were first invented [1:15:29];

*Why making aerogels ends up breaking the ideal gas law [1:18:35];

*What does it mean when PV no longer equals nRT? [1:20:53];

*What is the critical point? Liquid and the gas become the same! [1:25:12];

*Properties of supercritical fluids and the magic in watching them form [1:29:12];

*Applications of aerogels kicked off by a listener question from Riley, a junior from the Chapin School, about aerogels and space travel [1:33:07];

*The challenging problem of insulating cryogenic tanks for rockets and potential for polyimide aerogels to solve this [1:37:07];

*What advice does Stephen have for students interested in science? Spoiler: Thorium! [1:45:40]

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Our guest today is Stephen Steiner. 

Stephen is President, CEO, and founder of Aerogel Technologies, a company based outside of Boston. Stephen has a PhD from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Materials Chemistry and Engineering which he completed in the Department of Aeronautics and Astronautics, and a Master’s Degree in Materials Science and Engineering, also from MIT. 

And prior to graduate school, Stephen got his Bachelor’s degree in Chemistry at the University of Wisconsin in Madison, and that is actually how I know Stephen! I was in the graduate program in chemistry and a lab teaching assistant one summer — I think it was the summer of 2001 — and Stephen was working at the stockroom window where undergrads needed to get various supplies for completing their lab projects.

Stephen has such an interesting story of really falling in love with science at a young age and doing so many interesting things on both the discovery side and the business side of science, focused on aerogels. 

In this MINI episode, Stephen talks to us about the invention of aerogels, and how the process of making them defies the ideal gas law, PV = nRT, and how we see that by the formation of a critical fluid. Tune in on Thursday for the full-length interview!

Highlights of the episode:

*Susan introduces Stephen and today’s topic [0:56];

*Stephen tells us what aerogels are [3:02];

*Stephen describes the invention of aerogels [3:38];

*Stephen talks about why the ideal gas law no longer holds in the formation of aerogels [6:26].

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Our guest today is Jodi Schottenfeld-Roames. We also have guests hosts — Serena Bunkin and Riley McManus. Serena and Riley are juniors at The Chapin School and are co-hosts of the Bio Break podcast. 

Jodi is a lecturer in the Molecular Biology department at Princeton University. She teaches a research course for molecular biology majors in their junior year, she co-teaches a biology course for non-majors, and teaches in the Freshman Scholars Institute. Jodi’s research explores the genetic and cell biological requirements to form a branched tubular organ system, like our circulatory system for example. 

Links to resources or topics mentioned in this episode:

Higher Educating — an article featuring Jodi’s teaching, written by Susan Keatley for the Princeton Alumni Weekly magazine

Learn.Genetics: Genetic Science Learning Center (University of Utah)

HHMI Biointeractive 

iBiology 

Highlights of the episode:

*Susan introduces Jodi, Serena, and Riley and today’s topic [1:31];

*Riley asks what led Jodi to pursue a career in science [2:55];

*Serena asks Jodi about integrating research and teaching [10:30];

*Jodi talks about the fall research course she teaches for junior molecular biology majors at Princeton [11:17];

*Learning to be a scientist — going from learning the basics in introductory courses to asking questions and designing experiments to push science forward [13:45];

*Susan asks about how Jodi eases this transition of learning to be a scientist for students [15:32];

*Jodi describes genotypes and phenotypes, and talks about the work her students do to better understand this relationship in the fruit fly tracheal system [18:10];

*Jodi shares some results from this work [24:45];

*The amazing and beautiful shapes of cells [25:43];

*Model systems — what are they? How are they helpful in biology? [28:20];

*Riley comments on model systems and Jodi adds more — model systems help us get basic research done so we can do applied work (e.g., develop medicines) in humans [32:56];

*Serena comments and talks about learning style and hands-on learning methods, then she asks how Jodi’s teaching has pushed her research forward and vice versa [36:13];

*Jodi shares how research affects her teaching — the nature of a research class helps Jodi get to know each student deeply and understand what each student needs to learn, and also talks about how teaching impacts research [37:33];

*Riley asks about teaching students who are not science majors [43:40];

*Jodi talks about the importance of teaching science to non-majors and gives examples of when this knowledge could be useful like serving on a jury or facing a difficult diagnosis [44:20];

*Susan asks Jodi about advice she would give to students interested in science - Jodi talks about free outreach events at nearby colleges [49:52];

*Jodi recommends a few online resources for anyone wanting to learn more about biology (these are listed as links above in the show notes) [52:41]

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Our guest today is Jodi Schottenfeld-Roames. We also have guests hosts — Serena Bunkin and Riley McManus. Serena and Riley are juniors at The Chapin School and are co-hosts of the Bio Break podcast. 

Jodi is lecturer in the Molecular Biology department at Princeton University. She teaches a research course for molecular biology majors in their junior year, she co-teaches a biology course for non-majors, and teaches in the Freshman Scholars Institute. Jodi’s research explores the genetic and cell biological requirements to form a branched tubular organ system, like our circulatory system for example. 

In this MINI episode, Jodi talks about the relationship between genotype and phenotype, and how her lab conducts research to learn more about this connection in the fruit fly tracheal system. Tune in on Thursday for the full-length interview!

Highlights of the episode:

*Susan introduces Jodi, Serena, and Riley and today’s topic [0:56];

*Jodi explains the terms genotype and phenotype and how they relate to each other [2:42];

*Jodi describes the research she and her students do to better understand the genotype-phenotype connection in the fruit fly tracheal system [6:47];

*What this works suggests about cell shape [9:22];

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Elizabeth is the leader of the Metric Program at the National Institute of Standards and Technology, also known as NIST, in Gaithersburg, Maryland. In this role, Elizabeth serves as the national advocate for the International System of Units, known as the SI, in the United States.

Our timing could also not be better, as this episode will air during Metric Week in the United States! October 5 - 11. 

Links to resources or topics mentioned in this episode:

National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)

NIST Metric Program 

Beyond Measure 

Redefining the the SI in 2018

Kibble balance including video 

DIY Kibble balance video 

SI Teacher Kits from NIST

Top 10 Tips for Teaching the Metric System

US Metric Association Science Fair Award Program 

US Metric Association National Metric Awards 

NIST Summer Undergraduate Research Fellowship (SURF)

NIST Professional Research Experience Program (PREP)

NIST International and Academic Affairs Office 

Highlights of the episode:

*Susan introduces Elizabeth and today’s topic [1:43];

*What led Elizabeth to pursue a career in metrology [3:06];

*Origins of the metric system [12:15];

*Metric system prefixes over the last 150 years [15:12];

*Structure of the metric system — the units, constants, and prefixes [17:26];

*Replacing the final physical objects of the metric system in 2018 [19:24];

*Conventional versus the Kibble balance and impact on measurement accuracy [21:33];

*The Metric Program and everything Elizabeth does as leader [26:55];

*Metric system misconceptions [30:09];

*Examples of the metric system in everyday life [33:40];

*Visualizing volume with the metric system [37:27];

*Science literacy and the metric system [39:08];

*Importance of standardization in science and measurement [41:30];

*Resources for students and teachers [43:50];

*US Metric Association awards [48:56]; 

*NIST internships and professional development programs for middle school teachers [51:30]

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Elizabeth is a physical scientist and the leader of the Metric Program at the National Institute of Standards and Technology, also known as NIST, in Gaithersburg, Maryland. In this role, Elizabeth serves as the national advocate for the International System of Units, known as the SI, in the United States. As the NIST website states, “The Metric Program supports businesses, officials, educators, and the public in understanding and applying the SI across commerce, education, and daily life.”

Our timing could also not be better, as this episode will air during Metric Week in the United States! October 5 - 11. 

In this MINI episode, Elizabeth talks about the origins of the metric system and dispels a misconception about the metric system. Tune in on Thursday for the full-length interview!

Highlights of the episode:

*Susan introduces Elizabeth and today’s topic [0:56];

*Origins of the metric system [2:11];

*Metric system misconceptions [6:33]

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Sarina is a product manager at a software company that specializes in lab safety, SciSure.

Topics mentioned in this episode:

On safe chemical storage: Stanford Compatible Storage Group Guide 

Prudent Practices In the Laboratory

 CSHEMA- Campus Safety, Health, and Environmental Management Association 

Chemical and Engineering News series on Lab Safety in Wake of UCLA Accident 

On careers in HVAC:

He Skipped College to Become a Repairman from the Wall Street Journal August 2024

Why I Skipped College to Be an HVAC Tech from the Wall Street Journal June 2024 

Highlights of the episode:

*Susan introduces Sarina and today’s topic [1:41];

*What led Sarina to pursue a career in lab safety [3:27];

*What does Sarina love about her job and why is it a good fit for her skill set? [7:20];

*Some of the top safety concerns real labs face [9:29];

*How has safety software helped? [15:09];

*Compliance versus safety and how software plays a role in compliance [16:46];

*Ensuring centralized and standardized information in a lab [18:48];

*On how the culture of lab safety has changed in recent decades [23:31];

*On safe chemical storage, and a listener question from a 6th grader at Cockeysville Middle School in Baltimore Country about mixing chemicals [31:03];

*Examples of specific chemicals that should not be mixed [36:28];

*The joys and dangers of dry ice [37:48];

*What are the career opportunities in the safety field and what skills are required in these jobs? [40:40]:

*The sustainability aspect of lab safety [42:55];

*Sarina’s advice for students interested in science [45:37]

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Sarina is a product manager at a software company that specializes in lab safety — the company is called SciSure. Sarina has a background in chemistry — she received her Bachelor of Science degree in Chemistry from Haverford College, and went on to complete a Master’s Degree in Chemistry from New York University. I reached out to Sarina about the podcast when I read on her Linked In page that she works at the intersection of science, safety and software. I loved this description — it made me think about the importance of safety in the lab on a lot of levels - personal safety in terms of lab accidents but also longer term exposure to certain chemicals, etc and also environmental safety — and made me want to learn more about how software tools can help with safety.  

In this MINI episode, Sarina talks a bit about what it’s like to have a career in lab safety, discusses some of the safety challenges real labs face, and answers a listener question from a 6th grader about mixing chemicals. Tune in on Thursday for the full-length interview! 

Highlights of the episode:

*Susan introduces Sarina and today’s topic [0:55];

*What led Sarina to pursue a career in lab safety [2:09];

*Some of the top safety concerns real labs face [4:54];

*On safe chemical storage, and a listener question from a 6th grader at Cockeysville Middle School in Baltimore Country about mixing chemicals [6:15];

*Example of chemicals that should not be mixed together [10:26]

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Alan Lightman is a writer and physicist.

Originally from Memphis, he has served on the faculties of Harvard and MIT and was the first person at MIT to receive dual faculty appointments in science and in the humanities.

He is currently a professor of the practice of the humanities at MIT.

Alan has authored numerous books, including Einstein’s Dreams, an international best seller, and The Diagnosis which was a finalist for the National Book Award in fiction. And along the way, he has done research on the astrophysics of black holes and stellar dynamics.

In this episode, Alan Lightman talks to us about the scientific method, what makes science a unique and powerful discipline, and the contributions scientists have made in history, are making now, and surely will continue to make. 

Highlights of the episode:

*Susan introduces Alan and today’s topic [1:41];

*What led Alan to become a scientist [3:06];

*Why Alan decided to shift from science to writing [4:35];

*The scientific method is a way of thinking, and why science is conducive to this way of thinking because we can check hypotheses [6:16];

*The objectivity of science results from the community working together and challenging each other [9:30];

*Why is it more difficult to test a hypothesis in other disciplines? [10:28];

*The importance of experiments that don’t work and hypothesis that don’t work [14:20];

*You can disprove a hypothesis, but you can’t prove it. Why? [18:13];

*How science progresses through theories and then experiments that disagree with those theories [21:15];

*The unfortunate and harmful situation of flashy headlines in science communication [23:25];

*Science does not progress by flashy news, but by accumulation of small steps and “not mostly dramatic breakthroughs” [26:48];

*Scientists as people — what are they like? What did Alan learn from profiling scientists in his new book, The Shape of Wonder, co-written with Martin Rees? [27:33];

*Scientists are curious about the world and want to do experiments — you can even do it at home, not just in the classroom! [30:43];

*What is Alan hopeful about in science and what is concerning? [31:40];

*Alan’s advice to students interested in science [35:17]

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In this mini episode, Alan Lightman talks to us about the scientific method, why we can disprove but not prove hypotheses, and offers advice to students interested in science. For the full-length interview, tune in on Thursday!

Alan's Bio:

Alan Lightman is a writer and physicist.

Originally from Memphis, he has served on the faculties of Harvard and MIT and was the first person at MIT to receive dual faculty appointments in science and in the humanities.

He is currently a professor of the practice of the humanities at MIT.

Alan has authored numerous books, including Einstein’s Dreams, an international best seller, and The Diagnosis which was a finalist for the National Book Award in fiction. And along the way, he has done research on the astrophysics of black holes and stellar dynamics.

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On the Science Fare podcast, we aim to bring you conversations with scientists doing fascinating, cutting-edge work on all kinds of interesting phenomena, ranging from physics, to chemistry, to biology, and even the nature of science itself. Every other week in Season 3, we’ll release two episodes — a short-ten minute episode on Mondays which focuses on how the scientist’s research connects to what kids are learning in the classroom, and then the full-length interview on Thursdays. 

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Focusing on leukemia as an example, Pat Brown tells us how changes in the DNA sequence of a gene can result in cancer. This connects to one of the Next Generation High School Science Standards in Life Science, which states that students should be able to construct an explanation based on evidence for how the structure of DNA determines the structure of proteins which carry out the essential functions of life through systems of specialized cells.

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Works cited in this conversation:

The Emperor of All Maladies: A Biography of Cancer by Siddhartha Mukherjee

Janet Rowley and her work on cancer genetics 

FLT3 inhibitors: a paradigm for the development of targeted therapeutics for paediatric cancer, in the European Journal of Cancer, March 2004 

The biology and targeting of FLT3 in pediatric leukemia, in Frontiers in Oncology, September 2014 

Episode highlights:

*Susan introduces Pat [1:58];

*Pat talks about his journey to becoming a physician and scientist focusing on pediatric leukemia [5:08];

*What is leukemia? Pat gives us an overview [8:46];

*Why leukemia has been at the forefront of cancer research and treatment [11:58];

*Pat’s early research and clinical work in leukemia [13:38];

*When, how, and why cancer treatment shifted from a one-size-fits-all approach to something more targeted [15:45];

*Some of the specifics of Pat’s work — what is FLT3? Why is it important in leukemia? [21:12];

*Pat’s work in developing clinical trials for treatments for children with leukemia — bench to bedside and back again [28:00];

*Success with the small molecule lestaurtinib, a first-generation FLT3 inhibitor [30:10];

*Pat’s group partnered with another company to produce a monoclonal antibody that could target FLT3 [31:12];

*Main challenge with both treatments (and challenge with all cancer therapies) is cancer developing resistance to treatment — people try to prevent resistance with multimodal treatments [32:20];

*Leads to the idea of personalized therapy — in each person, what are the genetic characteristics driving the cancer and can those be targeted with a cocktail tailored to that person? [35:40];

*Liquid biopsy’s potential in helping us see solid tumor cancers earlier and more comprehensively [36:58];

*Pat’s reflections on working in “translational medicine” — as a physician and a scientist — and the importance of bedside to bench as well as bench to bedside [39:21];

*How working as a scientist in academia is different from working in industry [43:25];

*What Pat is working on now, and his hopes for a decade or two out [50:04];

*High school science portion of the episode — Focusing on leukemia as an example, Pat tells us how changes in the DNA sequence of a gene can result in cancer. This connects to one of the Next Generation High School Science Standards in Life Science, which states that students should be able to construct an explanation based on evidence for how the structure of DNA determines the structure of proteins which carry out the essential functions of life through systems of specialized cells [55:23];

*Pat shares a memory from high school science [1:02:43];

*Pat’s advice to high school students today who are interested in science [1:04:05]

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Most often when high school students learn about diffusion, the assumption is that the particles feel no attractions to each other. When you place a drop of dye into a flask of water, the dye spreads. Microscopically, the particles of dye and water bounce off each other due to thermal motion but we assume they experience no significant attraction or repulsion to each other.

But what happens if the particles DO repel each other? It turns out that this often the case, in scenarios ranging from collections of proteins to groups of people. Naomi and Matan studied diffusion in this scenario, and they share their findings here and the implications for larger questions.

Papers cited in this conversation:

Compact Expansion of a Repulsive Suspension in Physical Review Letters, June 2024 

Bustling through the physics of crowds in Knowable, November 2024 

Lane nucleation in complex active flows in Science, March 2023 

Scientist bios:

Naomi is an assistant professor of Exact Sciences in the school for Physics and Astronomy at Tel Aviv University. She is interested in complex fluids, statistical mechanics, soft matter, and biology-inspired physical systems. She uses theoretical analytical tools, numerical simulations, and a dash of experiments. Some of her research achievements include predicting the effect of protein concentration on membrane viscosity and understanding why crumpled paper is shapeable, and her future directions include studying heterogeneous materials in biology and for next-generation functional materials.

Matan is an assistant professor of artificial intelligence at the Donders Center for Cognition at Radboud University in Nijmegen in the Netherlands. Matan’s research focuses on natural computation and collective behavior. He uses a combination of applied physics, statistical mechanics, artificial intelligence, and materials science to explain collective behavior in nature and to realize it in robotic swarms. Some of his research achievements include programmable self-assembly on the sub-cellular scale, developing a synthetic swarm or micro-swimmers on the cellular scale, and designing decentralized learning in robotic swarms. 

Episode highlights:

*Susan introduces Naomi and Matan [1:28];

*How Naomi and Matan became scientists and ended up working together [3:25];

*What is regular thermal diffusion? [10:45];

*How Naomi and Matan got the idea to look at diffusion in a repulsive substance [15:52];

*What did they think they might see? [18:32];

*Repulsive particles are ubiquitous [20:20];

*How theory, simulations, and experiments came together in this work [25:15];

*How the expansion of a repulsive substance difference from normal diffusion [29:25];

*Why are the results significant and what new questions do they raise? [36:53];

*Relevance of this work to thinking about crowds of people [40:20];

*How this work helps broaden how students think about diffusion [44:30];

*Naomi and Matan share memories from high school science [48:00];

*Naomi and Matan give advice to high school students interested in studying science [51:18]

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In this mini episode, Naomi Oppenheimer and Matan Yah Ben Zion talk about their path to becoming physicists and their latest work — a look at the diffusion of a substance made of repulsive particles. 

Most often when high school students learn about diffusion, the assumption is that the particles feel no attractions to each other. When you place a drop of dye into a flask of water, the dye spreads. Microscopically, the particles of dye and water bounce off each other due to thermal motion but we assume they experience no significant attraction or repulsion to each other.

But what happens if the particles DO repel each other? It turns out that this often the case, in scenarios ranging from collections of proteins to groups of people. Naomi and Matan studied diffusion in this scenario, and they share their findings here and the implications for larger questions.

If you like this episode, stay turned for the full length interview in a few days! 

Scientist bios:

Naomi is an assistant professor of Exact Sciences in the school for Physics and Astronomy at Tel Aviv University. She is interested in complex fluids, statistical mechanics, soft matter, and biology-inspired physical systems. She uses theoretical analytical tools, numerical simulations, and a dash of experiments. Some of her research achievements include predicting the effect of protein concentration on membrane viscosity and understanding why crumpled paper is shapeable, and her future directions include studying heterogeneous materials in biology and for next-generation functional materials.

Matan is an assistant professor of artificial intelligence at the Donders Center for Cognition at Radboud University in Nijmegen in the Netherlands. Matan’s research focuses on natural computation and collective behavior. He uses a combination of applied physics, statistical mechanics, artificial intelligence, and materials science to explain collective behavior in nature and to realize it in robotic swarms. Some of his research achievements include programmable self-assembly on the sub-cellular scale, developing a synthetic swarm or micro-swimmers on the cellular scale, and designing decentralized learning in robotic swarms. 

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On the episode, we talk about the myriad possibilities of carbon monoxide (yes, carbon monoxide!) in medicine, ranging from its use in organ transplantation, cancer, wound care, and sickle cell anemia.

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Dr. Dan Hatfield is a senior public health researcher at FHI360 with 15 years of experience developing, evaluating, and replicating community and behavioral interventions promoting healthy eating and physical activity, particularly in children, adolescents, and families. Previously, as a Research Assistant Professor at Tufts University, he served as principal or co-investigator on 13 federal and foundation-funded research grants, and he taught graduate courses in behavioral theory, health communications, and public health. His subject-matter expertise spans diverse domains, including nutrition, physical activity, obesity prevention, health communications, and theory-based intervention design.

Dan talks with us about the opportunities for and barriers to programs that aim to get communities more physically active.

Highlights of the episode:

*Susan introduces Dan [0:56];

*Dan’s background and path to becoming a scientist [2:08];

*Dan talks about the more and less well known benefits of physical activity [7:27];

*Some of the impediments to getting individuals and communities active [12:37];

*Dan’s work in helping to establish physical activity programs in a community in East Boston [18:11];

*Dan’s current NIH study in partnership with New York Road Runners [29:13];

*Dan’s hopes for the next 5 - 10 years for getting more people moving more [30:39];

*Was there a time when people in the US were moving a lot more? [34:46];

*High school science section — Dan talks about how when solving a problem, you determine the “necessary qualitative and quantitative criteria and constraints for solutions,

including any requirements set by society,” (From the Technology and Engineering Massachusetts standard HS-ETS1-1. Analyze a major global challenge to specific a design problem that can be improved.) [37:12];

*Dan shares a memory from high school science [44:20];

*Dan gives advice to high school students interested in studying science [46:04]

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Mike Shelley is an applied mathematician who uses modeling and simulation to better understand the physics and biology of complex systems. He is the director of the Center for Computational Biology, which is part of the Flatiron Institute — the scientific research arm of the Simons Foundation located in NYC. He also co-founded and co-directs the Courant Institute’s Applied Mathematics Laboratory at New York University.

Today, Mike is going to talk about elucidating how things in the cell find their proper place. Most listeners likely know that the cell is the basic unit of life, and within the cell are important structures like, for example, the nucleus which holds the DNA, and the ribosomes, where proteins are made. There are other structures that are actually transient, like the spindle, for example, and yet are crucially important for cell division — the process of making new cells. 

Mike and his colleagues have done extensive work to understand how the spindle and related structures form, get in the right place, and stay in the right place for successful cell division. His work is a beautiful example of how physics and biology together help solve problems and push forward our understanding of the complexities of life. 

Papers mentioned in this conversation:

“Forces positioning the mitotic spindle: Theories, and now experiments,” 2016, Bioessays

“Stoichiometric interactions explain spindle dynamics and scaling across 100 million years of nematode evolution,” 2020, eLife

“Laser ablation and fluid flows reveal the mechanism behind spindle and centrosome positioning,” 2023, Nature Physics 

Highlights of the episode:

*Susan introduces Mike and today’s topic [0:56];

*Mike’s background and path to becoming a scientist [2:50];

*The art of biophysical modeling and how it’s different from mathematical modeling [6:52];

*The technological and computational advances that have strengthened modeling [9:20]; 

*What is the spindle and why is it so important? [15:36];

*Different sets of forces have been proposed as key drivers in positioning the spindle — how was Mike’s group able to combine experiments and biophysical modeling to determine that pulling forces were predominant? [18:00]; 

*An earlier review paper from 2016 suggested that pushing forces were predominant — how changes like this are part of the scientific process [27:08];

*Other scientific problems Mike is excited about [28:45]; 

*High school science section — Mike talks about how understanding forces in the cellular world is quite different from what we see in the typical macroscopic world of the physics classroom with its ramps, balls, pendulums, etc. [32:18];

*Mike shares a memory from high school science [40:02];

*Mike gives advice to high school students interested in studying science [42:15]

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In today’s episode, we talk about:

*The Next Generation High School Science Standard entitled, “Engaging in Argument from Evidence.” In this standard, high school students are asked to evaluate the claims, evidence, and reasoning behind currently accepted explanations or solutions to determine the merits of arguments. I ask Christie and Jody how their work demonstrates this standard. [3:33];

*The advice Jody and Christie would give to high school students interested in science [14:50]

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Links mentioned in the episode:

Fed is Best Foundation

Fed is Best Book

New York Times Parenting article on How to Deal with Low Breastmilk Supply

Sibling study on breast- and formula-fed babies and outcomes (appearing in Social Science & Medicine, 2014)

In the interview, we talk about:

*Christie’s and Jody’s experiences that led them to start the Fed is Best Foundation [4:15];

*The Fed is Best book and dispelling the myth that every mother makes enough milk to feed her baby [15:30];

*Dispelling the myth that supplementing a baby is at odds with breastfeeding [22:15];

*Dispelling the myth that baby formula harms babies [28:45];

*The sibling study on breast-and formula-fed babies and outcomes [34:45];

*Postpartum mental health and breastfeeding [39:50];

*Practical feeding guidance in the Fed is Best book [43:05];

*The impact of the Fed is Best Foundation on policy and public attitudes [46:15];

*Where to find the Fed is Best book [54:45]

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In this conversation, we talk about:

*Lisa’s career in teaching [3:25];

*What it’s like being a department chair [4:58];

*What is uniquely special about teaching 10th grade chemistry [6:30];

*What Lisa has done in her classroom to connect the curriculum to the broader world [8:35];

*Why the Flint, MI chemistry unit worked so well [10:22];

*What are some challenges teachers face in connecting classroom curriculum to the broader world? [17:43];

*Why is it important to do this? [20:40];

*What can public school teachers, who may be more constrained in their curriculum, do to link the classroom to world events? [24:40];

*How can a podcast like best help in the effort to draw connections between the high school science classroom and the world of scientists and what they do? [27:50]

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Here is an informative video on single cell genomics and its use in the effort to make a comprehensive human cell map (aka, the Human Cell Atlas). 

In Part 2 of this conversation, we discuss:

*the idea of a cell as a test tube in single-cell genomics, and setting up massively parallel (millions and millions!) experiments [1:58];

*the Human Cell Atlas is a Human Genome Project-type effort, but with throughput that dwarfs that of the 1990s [4:00];

*Single-cell perturb-seq — the evolution of the classic mutant screen [5:25];

*Mechanics of how single-cell analysis works —partitioning via droplets [8:30];

*Implications for drug discovery and development [9:40];

*How do we analyze all these data? [12:35];

*How scientist communities are changing [20:00];

*What Jill’s job at 10x Genomics is like [21:05];

*What trouble-shooting as a scientist at a biotech company looks like [26:00];

*Jill’s advice on how to progress in a scientific career [29:14];

*Connection to a California state high school science learning standard on engineering design [32:08];

*Jill’s memory from high school science — her AP Chemistry teacher conveying both the difficulty and possibility of doing well on the AP exam [36:51];

*Jill’s advice to high school students interested in science — first, science is fun, and remember that! make sure to find the joy in it, in whatever way, when it gets hard, and second, keep your eyes open to all of the various ways you can be a scientist. [40:13]

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Jill Herschleb, senior director of cell biology at 10x Genomics, talks about her path as a scientist and her work in building the tools that have helped make single-cell genomics the robust and flexible technology it is today. 

Here is an informative video on single cell genomics and its use in the effort to make a comprehensive human cell map (aka, the Human Cell Atlas). 

In Part 1 of this conversation, we discuss:

*How Jill got interested in science as a kid [2:30]

*Jill’s grad school realization that scientists could build tools, and that was what she wanted to focus on [4:15]

*Jill’s path after graduate school, and the many opportunities for scientists beyond academia [6:05]

*Jill’s role at 10x Genomics [10:15]

*Prelude to single-cell genomics: next-generation sequencing (NGS). What is it and why it is important? [14:20]

*How did NGS lead to single-cell genomics? What is single-cell genomics? Moving beyond the limits of hypothesis-based research with single-cell genomics [18:45]

*One example of an important discovery from single-cell genomics: the pulmonary ionocyte and its role in Cystic Fibrosis [28:00]

*The necessity of more data at this resolution — the single cell — to make important discoveries [32:30]

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Specific timestamps:

*Hashim Al-Hashimi: New York state high school curriculum in Life Sciences disciplinary core idea: “Although DNA replication is tightly regulated and remarkably accurate, errors do occur and result in mutations which are also a source of genetic variation.” How can we think about mutations and the evolution of variation in terms of a sweet spot between evolutionary fitness and peril? [2:10]

*Jamie Morton: In the Maryland state high school curriculum under the topic of The Nature of Science, students are expected to master the idea that “scientific inquiry is characterized by a common set of values that include logical thinking, precision, open-mindedness, objectivity, skepticism, replicability of results, and honest and ethical reporting of findings.” How did the study on autism and microbiome incorporate some of these values? [9:50]

*Jamie Morton: Also in the Maryland state high school curriculum, we have the Life Science learning standard that says, “Feedback mechanisms maintain a living system’s internal conditions within certain limits and mediate behaviors allowing it to remain alive and functional even as external conditions change within some range. Feedback mechanisms can encourage through positive feedback or discourage through negative feedback what is going on inside the living system.” Can we talk about the microbiome and autism in these terms? [14:25]

*Kelly Knudson: In the Arizona state high school curriculum, in the Chemistry section of the learning standards, students are asked to “explain how the structure of atoms relates to patterns and properties observed within the periodic table.” How does the way Strontium gets into bones relate to this idea? [17:30]

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We discuss: 

*What Kelly and her colleagues learned about where the objects at the site were from [2:45]; about 25% of objects coming from significant distances, and interpret that to mean the feast-goers were coming from significant distances [3:00];

*Were the results expected? Surprising? [3:54];

*What kinds of distances are we talking about, and how does the concept of distance today differ from what it may have meant in the past? [6:30];

*How the archaeological and chemical data come together [9:30];

*What happens when the archaeological and chemical data conflict? An example [12:45];

*How the field of archaeological chemistry has changed since Kelly was in graduate school [16:49];

*What excites Kelly the most about archaeological chemistry research — trying to understand what people’s lives were like the past [17:40];

*Connection to an Arizona state high school science learning standard on how the structure of atoms relates to patterns and properties observed in the Periodic Table [19:10];

*Kelly’s memory from high school science — an AP Bio project that was her first “field” experience and how much she loved it [23:45];

*Kelly’s advice to high school students interested in science — explore, be attuned to what interests you, be open to new paths and opportunities that open up [26:00]

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Kelly Knudson, professor of Anthropology in the School of Human Evolution and Social Change at Arizona State University, and director of the Center for Bioarchaeological Research and the Archaeological Chemistry Laboratory, talks to us about archaeological chemistry, her path as an archaeological chemist, and about a paper she and others published in PNAS entitled “Feasting and the evolution of cooperative social organizations circa 2300 B.P. in Paracas culture, southern Peru,” in which the chemical isotope data help determine where objects at a feasting site came from, and from there, lead to inferences about the evolution of social complexity at the site. 

We discuss: 

*A brief intro to archaeological chemistry [1:28];

*Kelly’s background and path to a career in archaeological chemistry [2:47 ]; 

*Importance of getting into the field and having mentors in her early career [7:10];

*Kelly’s job now: direct the lab (12,000 archaeological samples analyzed to date!), admin and budgeting, teaching, mentoring students in the classroom and in the lab [7:55];

*Introduction to the PNAS paper on feasting and using archaeological chemistry to infer how far the people at the feast traveled to get there [14:10]; 

*When archaeologists may need to use chemistry to help determine where objects at a site are from [15:30];

*What are isotopes? [17:50];

*How to use Strontium isotopes (Sr-86 and Sr-87) to figure out where objects are from [19:47];

*Objects found at the site — cotton textiles, bottle gourds, corn, llamas, etc — and why this looks like a feast versus everyday food consumption [23:20]; 

*Using guinea pigs to make Strontium isotope maps in Peru [27:20]

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For a primer on the human microbiome, check out this 2020 review piece that appeared in Nature Medicine: “Current understanding of the human microbiome.”

We discuss:

*Implications of this work for future studies on autism — how to get at causality [2:55]; 

*Importance of longitudinal studies [3:40];

*Clinical trials done via sampling kits [5:40];

*Has the human microbiome changed over the past decades? [7:10];

*Microbiome research going forward, beyond autism [9:00]; 

*Microbiome and differential responses to drugs [10:45];

*Historical context -- when did scientists start talking about the microbiome seriously? [11:30];

*Connection to Maryland high school science standard on the nature of science [13:00];

*Connection to Maryland high school science standard on feedback in biological systems [17:40];

*Jamie’s memory from high school science — preparing for a robotics competition [20:27];

*Jamie’s advice to high school students interested in science — importance of multidisciplinary work [23:01]

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For a primer on the human microbiome, check out this 2020 review piece that appeared in Nature Medicine: “Current understanding of the human microbiome.”

We discuss:

*Introduction of the terms “human gut microbiome” and “autism” [1:20]

*Jamie’s background as a scientist [4:05];

*How this study got started at the Simons Foundation [5:37];

*Jamie’s interest in autism [7:18];

*Genesis of the research [8:10];

*What is a meta-analysis? [10:47];

*Importance of analyzing previous datasets [11:20];

*Deciding on what kinds of data to focus on [12:30];

*Bringing together different kinds of data to build a functional architecture [14:22];

*Computational modeling ins and outs — batch effect correction, age and sex matching to avoid confounding [15:09];

*Associations between data and autism [18:31], including the surprising overlap between microbial and human pathways [21:15];

*Causality or association? [23:45]; 

*FMT paper: “Long-term benefit of Microbiota Transfer Therapy on autism symptoms and gut microbiota."[24:42];

*What is FMT and what does it do? [25:09];

*Overlap between paper’s research and FMT study — additional validation [27:54]

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We discuss:

*Quick recap of Part 1 [1:05];

*DNA polymerase and its transition states (spoiler alert: it’s like Pac-Man) [1:57];

*The different shapes, or contortions, of biomolecules can be seen as computing transition states [5:52];

*Right now in biology, there is a lot of focus on protein structure, and too little focus on the protein’s program [7:25];

*Not all computers (and therefore biological molecules) are Turing machines — computer scientists have developed a hierarchy of computers [8:27];

*The simplest machine is the finite state machine, with no external memory, and so the states are a form of memory [8:37];

*Computation as anything that follows instructions to solve a problem [10:30]; 

*Push-down automaton as the next computer in the hierarchy [11:00];

*Bounded tape computer as the next [13:00];

*How to begin building transition tables for biological molecules? Exploit the growing database of structures, to start. [14:00];

*Weakness of transition rules: they don’t include time information, critical to doing something like simulating a cell [16:00]; 

*Moving forward and building momentum around the effort to build transition tables [18:00];

*Quantum computing and its potential future role in determining transition states [19:50]; 

*Could we use this in the future to simulate complicated systems, like clinical trials, for example? [22:02];

*Relevance to a particular New York State high school science “disciplinary core idea” in the life sciences: “although DNA replication is tightly regulated and remarkably accurate, errors do occur and result in mutations, which are also a source of genetic variation,” [25:09] and how we can think about the ‘sweet spot’ of errors for evolving complexity but not harming an organism (or a computer!) [26:00];

*Hashim’s memory from high school science in Wales [32:35];

*Hashim’s advice to high school students today interested in studying science [34:30]

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In Part 1 of our conversation, we discuss:

*Hashim’s background as a scientist [1:05];

*Prelude to the problem: the late Nobel laureate Sydney Brenner’s idea that we are drowning in data [3:55];

*How Hashim got involved in this research [5:25];

*John von Neumann reveals his ideas at the Hixon Symposium at Caltech in 1948 [7:30];

*Von Neumann’s question: how can you build a machine that can build a machine more complex than itself, similar to how living organisms evolve into more complex organisms? [9:20];

*Von Neumann’s solution [10:50]; with copying error providing the basis for the evolution of complexity [12:20];

*Five years before the discovery that DNA had the double helix structure, von Neumann used principles of math, theorizing and thinking, to work out how complexity can and must evolve [15:00];

*All living organisms carry a copy of the instructions to build the organism [17:00];

*Turing and the general purpose programmable computer [18:00]; 

*The idea of states as fundamental components of computation in Turing’s machine [20:30];

*What it means that there is no solution to the decision problem [25:50];

*Hashim’s quest to understand Turing’s 1936 paper and the connection to biomolecules [27:30]

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On the Science Fare podcast, I aim to bring you conversations with scientists doing fascinating, cutting-edge work on all kinds of interesting phenomena, ranging from physics to chemistry to biology, and even the nature of science itself. Each conversation is split into two parts, and at the end of part two, we'lll draw connections between the scientist's research, and one or two high school science learning standards from that scientist's state.

Tune in for some Science Fare!

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