Wake Up, Underworld!

Cassandra and Lucifer

Wed, 07 Oct 2026 12:30:00 GMT

Lucifer and Cassandra

There are lots of furious arguments online and in schools these days about the end of reading. Kids aren’t doing it, neither are college students, and even the so-called writers churning out hot takes in newsletters and in the Atlantic seem to be missing the mark, which is that the human capacity for thought and reading has very little to do with yelling about lack for likes and Stripe payouts. Instead, the ability to read a sentence, a tarot card, a children’s book, a canonical tome, or the stars themselves has something very much to do with the spiritual principle of looking as if to see. So what can spiritual awakening do for one’s reading ability in an age where the drama over mechanized attention is one that surely spells apparent doom? Episode Four of Wake Up, Underworld! begins with a look at such concerns before following an account of Justin’s second awakening into a conversation on the nature of demons, spiritual ancestors, and how the subversive move of “reclaiming” one’s weaknesses or evil inclinations as one’s power is only a shadow of the true realization of weakness in strength and strength in weakness. The truth of such a realization is the mystery of magickal reality, which is one reason Justin and Cameron find themselves at a loss for words when mystics or occultist podcasters try to eschew magick, on the one hand, or God, on the other. Are there specific struggles that men and women face in articulating their spiritual or magickal paths? What roles does existence seem to force us into? We tackle these questions through exploring personal relationships to myth. Finally, the conversation comes full circle as it turns toward the growing understanding that one of the first steps toward knowing one’s Self comes from learning how to read, not as an educational exercise but as a simple expression of your spiritual birthright.

Texts Mentioned

Rudolph Steiner’s The Incarnation of Ahriman

Cameron’s essay “We Are Already AI”

Duncan Barford’s The Book of Raziel

Aleister Crowley’s The Vision and the Voice

Aleister Crowley’s Magick In Theory and Practice

Aleister Crowley’s Magick Without Tears, edited by Alan Chapman and Duncan Barford

Alan Chapman’s “Is God to Live In a Dog?”

Lao Tzu’s Tao Te Ching, translated by Aleister Crowley

Maurice Sendak’s Where the Wild Things Are

Philip K. Dick’s The Owl in Daylight

For a wonderful Weird Studies conversation on PKD's unfinished work, listen to episode 90 "The Owl in Daylight" https://www.weirdstudies.com/90

Alan Chapman’s Magia

CG Jung’s Memories, Dreams, Reflections

Liz Greene’s Jung’s Studies In Astrology

Samuel Taylor Coleridge's The Rime of the Ancient Mariner

Order Cameron's book "Interruption"

Read Justin's essay "Spiritus Contra Spiritum"

Show Art by Beck Corrigan

https://beckcorrigan.cargo.site/about-contact

Music by Justin Little

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

"A Higher Order of Relationship Altogether"

Wed, 23 Sep 2026 12:30:00 GMT

We begin with reflections on what’s left out of current conversations around the Odyssey after Christopher Nolan’s reboot. Is it possible to see the good news in the groundwater of contemporary discourse? How might we adopt a position of hanging back, looking as if to see, letting the message behind the messaging come through? These questions lead us into Cameron’s backstory as an investigative crime reporter receiving messages from and writing poetry alongside the dead in the Deep South of the United States. People enjoy quoting the imminently quotable Simone Weil these days — “attention is the purest form of devotion” and “to know truth is to accept death” — but what does the mystic really mean with these statements? How does proximity to death trick us, even when we’re apparently seeing beyond it, never mind accepting it? What’s the difference between performing bravado — an apparently unflinching devotion to the facts of life, in the face of death — and a strength that comes precisely from a recognition of one’s humility and madness? What’s the difference between turning a tarot card over in an attempt to know and reading the cards as part of the mystery of love? Can you honestly tell when you’re doing one thing or the other? Can you know which voice is speaking to you in the dark? We explore these questions and more in a pursuit of a “higher order of relationship altogether.”

Mentioned in the show:

The Odyssey by Homer

The Odyssey: A Graphic Novel by Gareth Hinds

The Prince of Egypt

"Sing for Our Time Too! The Divine Song of the Odyssey" by Mark Vernon

The Red Book: Liber Secundus, Chapter Three, "One of the Lowly" by CG Jung

Magick Without Tears by Aleister Crowley, edited by Alan Chapman and Duncan Barford

Gravity and Grace by Simone Weil

The Creative Tarot by Jessa Crispin

"What is Spiritual Development For?" Episode 241 of Conner Habib's podcast Against Everything With Conner Habib, with guests Alan Chapman and Duncan Barford

Duncan Barford's work and books, all found at Occult Experiments in the Home

Alan Chapman's Magia

Cameron's writing on her newsletter "interruptions"

Cameron's new book Interruption: Divinatory Essays on Illness and Narrative, published by Sul Books next week

The title of this episode comes from Cristina Campo's wonderful essay collection The Unforgivable

Order Cameron's book "Interruption"

Read Justin's essay "Spiritus Contra Spiritum"

Show Art by Beck Corrigan

https://beckcorrigan.cargo.site/about-contact

Music by Justin Little

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

“Tending to the Bonds Between the Seen and Unseen Worlds”

Wed, 09 Sep 2026 12:30:00 GMT

What is the relationship between mystical experience on drugs and spiritual awakening that happens when sober? What does it mean to look back upon a life of addiction, drug use, and “being the worst version of oneself” and to see that even the rock bottoms were supposed to be there? Is there a way to express the inevitability of one’s path without affirming what looks like “trauma for one’s own good?”1 What is the use of understanding one’s mundane suffering and spiritual realizations as part of a cycle of creation, an expression of a complete cosmology that we participate in, whether we’re conscious of it or not? Is there a benefit to making such a cycle conscious? We raise these questions and more in our second episode of Wake Up, Underworld!, where co-hosts Justin Little and Cameron Steele explore Justin’s backstory and one example of what it looks like to wake up in the middle of hell. Perhaps it’s the case that passing the test of faith doesn’t simply reframe your life, such that it was never a test at all. Perhaps such passage is also a powerful magick that alters Reality, changing past, present, and future altogether.

Read Justin's essay "Spiritus Contra Spiritum"

Texts mentioned in the show:

His Dark Materials series by Philip Pullman

The Chronicles of Narnia by CS Lewis

Alan Chapman’s Magia

Reality by Peter Kingsley

Drumming At the Edge of the Magic by Mickey Hart

The Tibetan Book of the Dead

Occult Experiments in the Home podcast by Duncan Barford

The Baptist’s Head by Alan Chapman and Duncan Barford

“Jason Louv and John Dee’s Empire of Angels” episode of the Occult of Personality podcast by Greg Kaminsky

On Drugs by Justin Smith-Ruiu

“On On Drugs” essay series by Mary Jane Eyre

The Book of Thoth by Aleister Crowley

“Trauma for Your Own Good” episode of the Worp FM podcast by Alan Chapman and Duncan Barford

The AA Big Book

The L. Ron Hubbard series produced by The Last Podcast on the Left

Peter Carroll’s books on Chaos Magick

Advanced Magick for Beginners by Alan Chapman

Dr. Rachel Elior’s academic work on mysticism and magick within Jewish culture

Order Cameron's book "Interruption"

Read Justin's essay "Spiritus Contra Spiritum"

Show Art by Beck Corrigan

https://beckcorrigan.cargo.site/about-contact

Music by Justin Little

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Anarchy with Common Sense

Wed, 26 Aug 2026 14:24:00 GMT

"Anarchy with Common Sense," our first episode explores "work" -- as well as the material obsession with career, status, and money (or the lack of any of these) -- as the true opiate of the masses. We talk about the Great Work of magick as the true opportunity to grow what you care about without fighting shadows. Sometimes that opportunity comes to you through the sudden tragedy of illness; sometimes it comes to you in the only week you've had off work in years. Why is that? What is that about? The conversation explores the Great Work through the lenses of personal experience and spiritual practice, amidst the backdrop of late-stage capitalism in the West.

You can find the podcast on any of your favorite podcast streaming services or on Acast. If you enjoyed listening, please like, subscribe, and share, or let us know in the comments!

Texts mentioned:

Magia by Alan Chapman

The Lost Soul by Olga Tokarczuk and Joanna Concego

Magick Without Tears by Aleister Crowley, edited by Alan Chapman and Duncan Barford

The Baptist's Head by Alan Chapman and Duncan Barford

The Last Night: Anti-work, Atheism, and Adventure by Federico Campagna

Be Creative by Angela McRobbie

The Red Book by CG Jung

The Introduction to the Black Books, by Sonu Shamdasani and CG Jung

The Book of the Sacred Magic of Abramelin the Mage

tao te ching by Ko Hsüan (Aleister Crowley)

Cosmic Trigger by Robert Anton Wilson