60 acast.com What’s the DEIL? https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil en THE NORFUS FIRM THE NORFUS FIRM Bold Conversations on Inclusive Leadership at Work What’s the DEIL? is a podcast for organizational leaders (and those who support them) who are navigating workplace culture, leadership, and inclusive practices in a rapidly evolving world.


We explore how leaders can create space for authentic human connection through the lens of DEI. In this podcast, we discuss real and relevant work issues in a way that centers people and challenges leaders to go above and beyond in their efforts to improve workplace culture.


We know you’re busy so we focus on practical strategies and solid practices that improve employee engagement, retention and impact.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> What’s the DEIL? is a podcast for organizational leaders (and those who support them) who are navigating workplace culture, leadership, and inclusive practices in a rapidly evolving world.


We explore how leaders can create space for authentic human connection through the lens of DEI. In this podcast, we discuss real and relevant work issues in a way that centers people and challenges leaders to go above and beyond in their efforts to improve workplace culture.


We know you’re busy so we focus on practical strategies and solid practices that improve employee engagement, retention and impact.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> false THE NORFUS FIRM info+6344668c20046b00119746e6@mg-eu.acast.com 6344668c20046b00119746e6 whats-the-deil episodic https://assets.pippa.io/shows/6344668c20046b00119746e6/1759705096349-609b59a0-7dde-4e50-bd3d-c149551a36d2.jpeg https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil What’s the DEIL? How Bias Sneaks Into Workplaces (And What To Do About It) How Bias Sneaks Into Workplaces (And What To Do About It) Fri, 26 Sep 2025 05:00:00 GMT 29:41 68d6d4c460e4b2ea7d421dd5 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/68d6d4c460e4b2ea7d421dd5 68d6d4c460e4b2ea7d421dd5 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full Bias happens everywhere, especially at work. And often, it shows up long before anyone realizes there’s a problem.


In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Shanté and Natalie dig into how bias, particularly unconscious or implicit bias, quietly shapes the workplace experience. Whether it’s small assumptions about who takes notes in meetings, who gets certain assignments, or how people’s communication styles are perceived, these “little” moments can snowball into big workplace issues, complaints, and even legal risk.


Here’s What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

✔️ What bias really is (hint: everyone has it—yes, even you)

✔️ The difference between conscious and unconscious bias

✔️ Why our brains build shortcuts and how they can reinforce stereotypes

✔️ How everyday behaviors, like questioning someone’s expertise or making assumptions based on appearance, can erode trust and fuel resentment

✔️ Real-life examples from investigations where unchecked bias created workplace conflict

✔️ The connection between mindfulness and inclusive leadership

✔️ Why curiosity (not defensiveness) is the antidote to bias

✔️ Simple, practical steps for leaders to disrupt bias before it leads to complaints or deeper organizational issues


Workplace Bias: More Than Just Hurt Feelings


Bias isn’t always about blatant discrimination; it often shows up as:

  • Who gets visible, high-value projects
  • How feedback is given (and to whom)
  • Who feels included versus who feels othered


Left unchecked, these moments chip away at morale, damage psychological safety, and, in some cases, open the door to formal complaints or investigations.


The Leadership Wake-Up Call

The hosts break down how mindful leaders can spot bias patterns early by:

✔️ Paying attention to who speaks, who gets overlooked, and who takes on invisible labor

✔️ Switching up routines to ensure equity in meetings and assignments

✔️ Avoiding lazy connections based on personal identity—build rapport in meaningful ways


The Bottom Line?

Bias is normal, but ignoring it is where workplaces fall apart. Leaders can’t afford to operate on autopilot. It takes self-awareness, curiosity, and intentional action to prevent small biases from becoming big problems. Whether you’re a new manager, seasoned executive, or DEI champion, this episode offers practical tools to create a more inclusive, equitable workplace before it escalates to formal complaints or investigations.


Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> Bias happens everywhere, especially at work. And often, it shows up long before anyone realizes there’s a problem.


In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Shanté and Natalie dig into how bias, particularly unconscious or implicit bias, quietly shapes the workplace experience. Whether it’s small assumptions about who takes notes in meetings, who gets certain assignments, or how people’s communication styles are perceived, these “little” moments can snowball into big workplace issues, complaints, and even legal risk.


Here’s What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

✔️ What bias really is (hint: everyone has it—yes, even you)

✔️ The difference between conscious and unconscious bias

✔️ Why our brains build shortcuts and how they can reinforce stereotypes

✔️ How everyday behaviors, like questioning someone’s expertise or making assumptions based on appearance, can erode trust and fuel resentment

✔️ Real-life examples from investigations where unchecked bias created workplace conflict

✔️ The connection between mindfulness and inclusive leadership

✔️ Why curiosity (not defensiveness) is the antidote to bias

✔️ Simple, practical steps for leaders to disrupt bias before it leads to complaints or deeper organizational issues


Workplace Bias: More Than Just Hurt Feelings


Bias isn’t always about blatant discrimination; it often shows up as:

  • Who gets visible, high-value projects
  • How feedback is given (and to whom)
  • Who feels included versus who feels othered


Left unchecked, these moments chip away at morale, damage psychological safety, and, in some cases, open the door to formal complaints or investigations.


The Leadership Wake-Up Call

The hosts break down how mindful leaders can spot bias patterns early by:

✔️ Paying attention to who speaks, who gets overlooked, and who takes on invisible labor

✔️ Switching up routines to ensure equity in meetings and assignments

✔️ Avoiding lazy connections based on personal identity—build rapport in meaningful ways


The Bottom Line?

Bias is normal, but ignoring it is where workplaces fall apart. Leaders can’t afford to operate on autopilot. It takes self-awareness, curiosity, and intentional action to prevent small biases from becoming big problems. Whether you’re a new manager, seasoned executive, or DEI champion, this episode offers practical tools to create a more inclusive, equitable workplace before it escalates to formal complaints or investigations.


Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> Why a Neutral, Trauma-Informed Investigator Can Save Your Workplace Why a Neutral, Trauma-Informed Investigator Can Save Your Workplace Wed, 03 Sep 2025 14:00:00 GMT 29:24 68b9b01945004e42c9728505 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/68b9b01945004e42c9728505 68b9b01945004e42c9728505 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Shanté and Natalie explore the often-overlooked aspects of internal investigations, highlighting why a neutral, trauma-informed third party can significantly impact the process, particularly in cases involving workplace culture, conflict, or DEI concerns.


Employee complaints are rarely as simple as they seem on the surface. Behind every formal investigation is often a tangled web of long-standing frustrations, cultural tensions, and unresolved bias. And yet, too many organizations fumble by either keeping investigations in-house when they shouldn’t or by bringing in external investigators who don’t have the skills or sensitivity to navigate complex people dynamics.


Natalie breaks down exactly when leaders should call in outside support, the risks of mishandling investigations, and why neutrality isn’t just about legal compliance; it’s about trust, safety, and protecting your culture. You’ll also hear how trauma-informed approaches can reduce harm, improve participation, and ultimately lead to better outcomes for everyone involved.


What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

✔️ When to keep an investigation internal and when to bring in a neutral third party

✔️ The biggest red flags in workplace complaints that signal it’s time for outside help

✔️ How bias, culture, and leadership dynamics complicate modern investigations

✔️ Why trauma-informed approaches are essential for fair, respectful processes

✔️ The link between sloppy investigations and employee distrust, turnover, lawsuits, or social media blow-ups

✔️ How proper investigations can actually improve your workplace culture long-term


Whether you’re an HR leader, executive, DEI practitioner, or people manager, this episode offers real-world insight into getting investigations right before your culture, reputation, or bottom line pay the price.


Key Topics:

  • How investigations intersect with workplace culture and DEI
  • Common investigation missteps that lead to bigger problems
  • What neutrality really looks like in practice
  • How trauma, identity, and bias show up in complaints
  • Building trust through transparent, fair investigation processes
  • The business case for proactive culture assessments before issues escalate


Need Help with Workplace Culture or Internal Investigations?


The Norfus Firm supports organizations through high-stakes investigations, DEI strategy, and culture audits. Whether you’re in crisis or building preventative systems, our trauma-informed, legally sound approach can help. Reach out to learn more.


Follow & Connect with us:


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Shanté and Natalie explore the often-overlooked aspects of internal investigations, highlighting why a neutral, trauma-informed third party can significantly impact the process, particularly in cases involving workplace culture, conflict, or DEI concerns.


Employee complaints are rarely as simple as they seem on the surface. Behind every formal investigation is often a tangled web of long-standing frustrations, cultural tensions, and unresolved bias. And yet, too many organizations fumble by either keeping investigations in-house when they shouldn’t or by bringing in external investigators who don’t have the skills or sensitivity to navigate complex people dynamics.


Natalie breaks down exactly when leaders should call in outside support, the risks of mishandling investigations, and why neutrality isn’t just about legal compliance; it’s about trust, safety, and protecting your culture. You’ll also hear how trauma-informed approaches can reduce harm, improve participation, and ultimately lead to better outcomes for everyone involved.


What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

✔️ When to keep an investigation internal and when to bring in a neutral third party

✔️ The biggest red flags in workplace complaints that signal it’s time for outside help

✔️ How bias, culture, and leadership dynamics complicate modern investigations

✔️ Why trauma-informed approaches are essential for fair, respectful processes

✔️ The link between sloppy investigations and employee distrust, turnover, lawsuits, or social media blow-ups

✔️ How proper investigations can actually improve your workplace culture long-term


Whether you’re an HR leader, executive, DEI practitioner, or people manager, this episode offers real-world insight into getting investigations right before your culture, reputation, or bottom line pay the price.


Key Topics:

  • How investigations intersect with workplace culture and DEI
  • Common investigation missteps that lead to bigger problems
  • What neutrality really looks like in practice
  • How trauma, identity, and bias show up in complaints
  • Building trust through transparent, fair investigation processes
  • The business case for proactive culture assessments before issues escalate


Need Help with Workplace Culture or Internal Investigations?


The Norfus Firm supports organizations through high-stakes investigations, DEI strategy, and culture audits. Whether you’re in crisis or building preventative systems, our trauma-informed, legally sound approach can help. Reach out to learn more.


Follow & Connect with us:


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> Culture Isn’t Just a Buzzword; It’s an Investigation Trigger Culture Isn’t Just a Buzzword; It’s an Investigation Trigger Fri, 01 Aug 2025 15:27:13 GMT 28:59 688cdcd1fc150bcf7f48cd63 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/688cdcd1fc150bcf7f48cd63 688cdcd1fc150bcf7f48cd63 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Shanté and Natalie dig into the real reason culture can’t just live on your company’s “About Us” page.


Yes, “culture” is often used as a feel-good concept. But when conflict erupts, or worse, formal complaints arise, what’s beneath the surface usually reveals a pattern, not a one-time issue. And that pattern? It’s shaped by culture.


From favoritism to retaliation to unchecked leadership behaviors, the hosts explore how your day-to-day practices, or lack thereof, are either reinforcing accountability or brewing your next workplace investigation.


In this episode, you’ll learn:

  • Why most formal workplace complaints aren’t about just one thing
  • How perceived favoritism, bias, and leader friendships lead to culture decay
  • Why investigations can’t fix culture, but audits can prevent investigations
  • What retaliation looks like (and how to avoid the legal and ethical fallout)
  • How leaders signal what’s “okay” through their everyday choices and why that matters more than your official policy
  • Why a culture audit is proactive, not performative, and how it saves money, time, and morale


Whether you lead a team or guide organizational strategy, this episode is a wake-up call: if you’re not looking at how your culture actually works, you’re probably not leading as well as you think.


Follow & Connect with us:


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Shanté and Natalie dig into the real reason culture can’t just live on your company’s “About Us” page.


Yes, “culture” is often used as a feel-good concept. But when conflict erupts, or worse, formal complaints arise, what’s beneath the surface usually reveals a pattern, not a one-time issue. And that pattern? It’s shaped by culture.


From favoritism to retaliation to unchecked leadership behaviors, the hosts explore how your day-to-day practices, or lack thereof, are either reinforcing accountability or brewing your next workplace investigation.


In this episode, you’ll learn:

  • Why most formal workplace complaints aren’t about just one thing
  • How perceived favoritism, bias, and leader friendships lead to culture decay
  • Why investigations can’t fix culture, but audits can prevent investigations
  • What retaliation looks like (and how to avoid the legal and ethical fallout)
  • How leaders signal what’s “okay” through their everyday choices and why that matters more than your official policy
  • Why a culture audit is proactive, not performative, and how it saves money, time, and morale


Whether you lead a team or guide organizational strategy, this episode is a wake-up call: if you’re not looking at how your culture actually works, you’re probably not leading as well as you think.


Follow & Connect with us:


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> Leadership in the Middle: Coaching for Culture Keepers Leadership in the Middle: Coaching for Culture Keepers Tue, 03 Jun 2025 19:49:53 GMT 18:14 683f51e2a113cf02fa4eab58 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/683f51e2a113cf02fa4eab58 683f51e2a113cf02fa4eab58 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full Middle managers are the unsung heroes of the modern workplace. They’re the bridge between vision and execution, strategy and people, senior leadership and front-line teams. But they’re also the most overlooked when it comes to meaningful development and support. In this episode of What’s the DEIL? Shanté and Natalie delve into why middle managers are the culture keepers and why investing in them is crucial to an organization's health, retention, and long-term performance.

From the unique challenges middle managers face to the pressure they absorb from both directions, we explore the importance of coaching, training, and development in making these roles sustainable. We also offer practical solutions, scalable coaching models, and a call for HR and executive leaders to stop thrusting people into leadership without providing them with the tools to succeed.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

  • Why middle managers are the “pressure cookers” of your organization
  • How senior leaders often misunderstand the lived experience of mid-level leadership
  • What happens when you promote people into management without equipping them
  • How coaching (not just training) is the key to unlocking leadership at scale
  • The ROI of supporting middle managers, not just in morale, but in outcomes
  • Why culture assessments should include a deep look at manager feedback
  • Tools like Cloverleaf that scale coaching organization-wide
  • The difference between leadership theory and actual day-to-day execution

Key Takeaways:

  • Middle managers carry more than task lists; they carry culture. And if they don’t feel supported or trained, you’ll feel it in engagement, productivity, and turnover.
  • Leadership development can’t be a one-time workshop. It must be continuous, embedded, and responsive to the evolving demands of the workplace.
  • Coaching is scalable. From one-on-one executive support to digital tools and group coaching sessions, there are ways to bring coaching into every level of the business.
  • Stop confusing technical excellence with managerial readiness. Just because someone is great at their job doesn’t mean they know how to lead people. Invest in that transition.
  • Avoid the “nasty nice” culture. If people aren’t telling the truth or sharing challenges, your culture will never grow and your middle managers will drown silently.


Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> Middle managers are the unsung heroes of the modern workplace. They’re the bridge between vision and execution, strategy and people, senior leadership and front-line teams. But they’re also the most overlooked when it comes to meaningful development and support. In this episode of What’s the DEIL? Shanté and Natalie delve into why middle managers are the culture keepers and why investing in them is crucial to an organization's health, retention, and long-term performance.

From the unique challenges middle managers face to the pressure they absorb from both directions, we explore the importance of coaching, training, and development in making these roles sustainable. We also offer practical solutions, scalable coaching models, and a call for HR and executive leaders to stop thrusting people into leadership without providing them with the tools to succeed.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

  • Why middle managers are the “pressure cookers” of your organization
  • How senior leaders often misunderstand the lived experience of mid-level leadership
  • What happens when you promote people into management without equipping them
  • How coaching (not just training) is the key to unlocking leadership at scale
  • The ROI of supporting middle managers, not just in morale, but in outcomes
  • Why culture assessments should include a deep look at manager feedback
  • Tools like Cloverleaf that scale coaching organization-wide
  • The difference between leadership theory and actual day-to-day execution

Key Takeaways:

  • Middle managers carry more than task lists; they carry culture. And if they don’t feel supported or trained, you’ll feel it in engagement, productivity, and turnover.
  • Leadership development can’t be a one-time workshop. It must be continuous, embedded, and responsive to the evolving demands of the workplace.
  • Coaching is scalable. From one-on-one executive support to digital tools and group coaching sessions, there are ways to bring coaching into every level of the business.
  • Stop confusing technical excellence with managerial readiness. Just because someone is great at their job doesn’t mean they know how to lead people. Invest in that transition.
  • Avoid the “nasty nice” culture. If people aren’t telling the truth or sharing challenges, your culture will never grow and your middle managers will drown silently.


Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> Preventing Conflict Before It Starts Preventing Conflict Before It Starts Tue, 03 Jun 2025 04:00:00 GMT 26:42 68407bcac8835d385c2f147f false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/68407bcac8835d385c2f147f 68407bcac8835d385c2f147f 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full Preventing Conflict Before It Starts

Conflict at work isn’t the enemy—avoiding it is.

In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Shanté and Natalie tackle one of the most misunderstood dynamics in leadership and workplace culture: conflict. Not the explosive kind we all dread but the slow-simmering tension that starts with a side-eye in a Slack message or a disengaged team member and ends in resignation letters, HR investigations, or boardroom complaints.

This conversation challenges the notion that all conflict is inherently bad and instead reframes it as inevitable and manageable if identified and addressed early. The goal? Spot issues before they erupt and build a workplace where healthy disagreement drives performance, not dysfunction.

What You’ll Learn:

  • Why conflict isn’t inherently negative and how judgment makes it worse
  • What it really costs your organization when conflict is left unchecked (hint: it’s more than money)
  • The early warning signs that tension is brewing under the surface
  • Why disengagement is a red flag, not just a phase
  • Self-awareness is the leadership skill that unlocks conflict prevention
  • What toxic management styles actually do to workplace culture (with real examples)
  • Practical tools for inclusive leaders to lead and lean into conflict before it’s too late
  • The underrated power of community agreements like “assume good intent”

This episode also explores what happens when leaders aren’t equipped to manage feedback and how their blind spots create ripple effects across an entire team. If your people don’t feel safe speaking up, your culture is already in trouble, and you might be the last to know.

Related Topics:

  • Psychological safety and its absence in the workplace
  • Why “I’m just direct” isn’t a leadership strategy
  • How to spot disengagement before it turns into attrition
  • What inclusive leadership actually looks like in tense moments

Whether you’re an HR leader, executive, team manager, or just trying to navigate tough work dynamics, this episode will challenge you to stop seeing conflict as a fire to put out and instead as a signal to lead better.

Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> Preventing Conflict Before It Starts

Conflict at work isn’t the enemy—avoiding it is.

In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Shanté and Natalie tackle one of the most misunderstood dynamics in leadership and workplace culture: conflict. Not the explosive kind we all dread but the slow-simmering tension that starts with a side-eye in a Slack message or a disengaged team member and ends in resignation letters, HR investigations, or boardroom complaints.

This conversation challenges the notion that all conflict is inherently bad and instead reframes it as inevitable and manageable if identified and addressed early. The goal? Spot issues before they erupt and build a workplace where healthy disagreement drives performance, not dysfunction.

What You’ll Learn:

  • Why conflict isn’t inherently negative and how judgment makes it worse
  • What it really costs your organization when conflict is left unchecked (hint: it’s more than money)
  • The early warning signs that tension is brewing under the surface
  • Why disengagement is a red flag, not just a phase
  • Self-awareness is the leadership skill that unlocks conflict prevention
  • What toxic management styles actually do to workplace culture (with real examples)
  • Practical tools for inclusive leaders to lead and lean into conflict before it’s too late
  • The underrated power of community agreements like “assume good intent”

This episode also explores what happens when leaders aren’t equipped to manage feedback and how their blind spots create ripple effects across an entire team. If your people don’t feel safe speaking up, your culture is already in trouble, and you might be the last to know.

Related Topics:

  • Psychological safety and its absence in the workplace
  • Why “I’m just direct” isn’t a leadership strategy
  • How to spot disengagement before it turns into attrition
  • What inclusive leadership actually looks like in tense moments

Whether you’re an HR leader, executive, team manager, or just trying to navigate tough work dynamics, this episode will challenge you to stop seeing conflict as a fire to put out and instead as a signal to lead better.

Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> The Real ROI of Coaching-Centered Leadership The Real ROI of Coaching-Centered Leadership Tue, 27 May 2025 21:25:37 GMT 33:23 68362dd2944c948b9a776647 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/68362dd2944c948b9a776647 68362dd2944c948b9a776647 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full In this episode of What’s the DEIL? Natalie and Shanté dive deep into the true power and misunderstood value of coaching in the workplace. Not performance management coaching. Not “fix your attitude or lose your job” coaching. We’re talking about real, development-focused, coaching-centered leadership that can transform your entire culture from the inside out.

Too often, coaching is treated as an executive luxury or a last-ditch effort to salvage problematic leaders. But what if coaching wasn’t just for the C-suite or crisis? What if it was a foundational leadership tool applied across all levels of your organization?

In this episode, we explore:

  • The real definition of coaching and how it’s distinct from advising, managing, or “correcting.”
  • Why coaching should not be reserved only for executives and how restricting it actually reinforces inequity.
  • The pitfalls of punitive coaching: why bringing in a coach post-investigation (as damage control) is often too little, too late.
  • Why culture matters: without a feedback-friendly workplace, coaching initiatives can fail before they start.
  • What it really means to be coachable and how organizations can assess if someone’s truly ready for growth.
  • How coaching directly ties into inclusion, belonging, and DEI strategy, not as a checkbox, but as a relationship-driven catalyst for real change.
  • The measurable ROI of coaching from reduced turnover and improved engagement to fewer conflicts and better decision-making.
  • The steps to build a coaching culture that doesn’t rely on hierarchy, perks, or performance reviews to unlock someone’s potential.

Whether you’re a CEO, a people leader, or someone leading quietly in the background (we see you, Stephanie!), this episode will challenge your assumptions about who gets to grow—and why coaching might be one of the most underutilized tools in your culture toolbox.

Key Takeaways:

  • Leadership is not a title. It’s behavior and it exists at every level of your org.
  • Coaching is a mirror. It’s about helping people see themselves, own their choices, and lead with clarity.
  • The ROI is real. Reduced attrition, more trust, better collaboration, and a culture where people actually want to stay.
  • DEI is embedded. True coaching acknowledges identity, background, and belonging.

Ready to rethink how leadership is developed in your org? Want to create a coaching culture that’s inclusive, strategic, and scalable? Reach out to us below.

Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> In this episode of What’s the DEIL? Natalie and Shanté dive deep into the true power and misunderstood value of coaching in the workplace. Not performance management coaching. Not “fix your attitude or lose your job” coaching. We’re talking about real, development-focused, coaching-centered leadership that can transform your entire culture from the inside out.

Too often, coaching is treated as an executive luxury or a last-ditch effort to salvage problematic leaders. But what if coaching wasn’t just for the C-suite or crisis? What if it was a foundational leadership tool applied across all levels of your organization?

In this episode, we explore:

  • The real definition of coaching and how it’s distinct from advising, managing, or “correcting.”
  • Why coaching should not be reserved only for executives and how restricting it actually reinforces inequity.
  • The pitfalls of punitive coaching: why bringing in a coach post-investigation (as damage control) is often too little, too late.
  • Why culture matters: without a feedback-friendly workplace, coaching initiatives can fail before they start.
  • What it really means to be coachable and how organizations can assess if someone’s truly ready for growth.
  • How coaching directly ties into inclusion, belonging, and DEI strategy, not as a checkbox, but as a relationship-driven catalyst for real change.
  • The measurable ROI of coaching from reduced turnover and improved engagement to fewer conflicts and better decision-making.
  • The steps to build a coaching culture that doesn’t rely on hierarchy, perks, or performance reviews to unlock someone’s potential.

Whether you’re a CEO, a people leader, or someone leading quietly in the background (we see you, Stephanie!), this episode will challenge your assumptions about who gets to grow—and why coaching might be one of the most underutilized tools in your culture toolbox.

Key Takeaways:

  • Leadership is not a title. It’s behavior and it exists at every level of your org.
  • Coaching is a mirror. It’s about helping people see themselves, own their choices, and lead with clarity.
  • The ROI is real. Reduced attrition, more trust, better collaboration, and a culture where people actually want to stay.
  • DEI is embedded. True coaching acknowledges identity, background, and belonging.

Ready to rethink how leadership is developed in your org? Want to create a coaching culture that’s inclusive, strategic, and scalable? Reach out to us below.

Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> Audit the Work, Not Just the Words: When DEI is Optics-Only Audit the Work, Not Just the Words: When DEI is Optics-Only Tue, 13 May 2025 13:03:37 GMT 29:42 6823432bf368620d454b87a7 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/6823432bf368620d454b87a7 6823432bf368620d454b87a7 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full In this episode of What’s the DEIL? Shanté and Natalie break down the difference between performative DEI and actual, lawful, impactful action. With anti-DEI rhetoric making headlines and fear running high across corporate America, this episode offers a practical, clear-eyed path forward for organizations who are feeling the pressure to “do something” but aren’t quite sure what.

Rather than reacting to political panic or folding to fear-based headlines, the hosts advocate for a proactive approach: a comprehensive workplace audit to ensure your people practices are legally compliant, inclusive in reality (not just in branding), and truly aligned with your company’s values.

Here’s what we cover:

  • Why so many DEI efforts have been reduced to performative gestures
  • The difference between assessments (proactive) and audits (reactive) and why both matter
  • What’s really behind today’s culture of fear around DEI programs
  • The legal framework you should be focused on. Hint: Title VII still matters
  • Why some leaders are unknowingly putting themselves at legal risk
  • How to build workplace culture initiatives that are inclusive, strategic, and sustainable
  • What your audit should include, from pay equity to promotion pathways to training
  • Why internal messaging needs to match external narrative (and how misalignment can backfire)

Plus, we unpack:

  • Why your DEI statements shouldn’t say more than your actions can prove
  • The number one workplace culture issue that everyone (yes, everyone) faces
  • How fear leads organizations to make decisions that aren’t in their own best interest
  • What success looks like when DEI is embedded, not bolted on

Whether you’re a CHRO, DEI lead, general counsel, or senior executive just trying to do the right thing, this episode is your blueprint for how to move from optics to integrity.

Bottom line: Your DEI work shouldn’t just sound good. It should be good and legal. Auditing your practices is how you find out if you’re walking the talk.

Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> In this episode of What’s the DEIL? Shanté and Natalie break down the difference between performative DEI and actual, lawful, impactful action. With anti-DEI rhetoric making headlines and fear running high across corporate America, this episode offers a practical, clear-eyed path forward for organizations who are feeling the pressure to “do something” but aren’t quite sure what.

Rather than reacting to political panic or folding to fear-based headlines, the hosts advocate for a proactive approach: a comprehensive workplace audit to ensure your people practices are legally compliant, inclusive in reality (not just in branding), and truly aligned with your company’s values.

Here’s what we cover:

  • Why so many DEI efforts have been reduced to performative gestures
  • The difference between assessments (proactive) and audits (reactive) and why both matter
  • What’s really behind today’s culture of fear around DEI programs
  • The legal framework you should be focused on. Hint: Title VII still matters
  • Why some leaders are unknowingly putting themselves at legal risk
  • How to build workplace culture initiatives that are inclusive, strategic, and sustainable
  • What your audit should include, from pay equity to promotion pathways to training
  • Why internal messaging needs to match external narrative (and how misalignment can backfire)

Plus, we unpack:

  • Why your DEI statements shouldn’t say more than your actions can prove
  • The number one workplace culture issue that everyone (yes, everyone) faces
  • How fear leads organizations to make decisions that aren’t in their own best interest
  • What success looks like when DEI is embedded, not bolted on

Whether you’re a CHRO, DEI lead, general counsel, or senior executive just trying to do the right thing, this episode is your blueprint for how to move from optics to integrity.

Bottom line: Your DEI work shouldn’t just sound good. It should be good and legal. Auditing your practices is how you find out if you’re walking the talk.

Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> Assessments Aren’t Optional. They’re a Leadership Discipline. Assessments Aren’t Optional. They’re a Leadership Discipline. Tue, 06 May 2025 16:40:38 GMT 29:42 681a3b87eb146d8e352d680d false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/681a3b87eb146d8e352d680d 681a3b87eb146d8e352d680d 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Natalie and Shanté are pulling back the curtain on one of the most overlooked but essential tools in your leadership toolbox: the workplace culture assessment.


Think employee engagement surveys are enough? Think again. The workplace and the world have shifted dramatically. What worked in 2019 won’t cut it in 2025. Your culture assessment can’t just be a box you check; it has to be a mirror reflecting your employees’ lived realities, otherwise, what’s the point?


In this episode, we cover:

  • What a workplace culture assessment actually is and what it’s not
  • Why getting a “score” isn’t nearly as useful as you think (hint: context matters more than a number)
  • How to stop comparing yourself to competitors and start competing with your own progress
  • Why assessments are only as valuable as your action especially if you haven’t followed up on the last one
  • What leaders need to ask themselves before even launching a survey
  • The ego check every executive needs to hear when interpreting feedback
  • How to read the room, ask the right questions, and connect better with your people


Plus: A sealed envelope story you won’t believe, the dangers of survey overload, and what makes someone truly qualified to lead people.


Natalie and Shanté also walk through a clear, practical assessment process, from design to analysis to (you guessed it) actually doing something with the data, and why most companies fall short in the final stretch.


Key takeaway? If your employees don’t feel heard, valued, or supported, you’re not just missing the mark on DEI, you’re leaving real business outcomes on the table. And no, you can’t fix it with a gold star or a ranking badge.


Want to know where your culture really stands? Start by asking and be ready to listen, learn, and lead differently.


Follow & Connect with us:


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Natalie and Shanté are pulling back the curtain on one of the most overlooked but essential tools in your leadership toolbox: the workplace culture assessment.


Think employee engagement surveys are enough? Think again. The workplace and the world have shifted dramatically. What worked in 2019 won’t cut it in 2025. Your culture assessment can’t just be a box you check; it has to be a mirror reflecting your employees’ lived realities, otherwise, what’s the point?


In this episode, we cover:

  • What a workplace culture assessment actually is and what it’s not
  • Why getting a “score” isn’t nearly as useful as you think (hint: context matters more than a number)
  • How to stop comparing yourself to competitors and start competing with your own progress
  • Why assessments are only as valuable as your action especially if you haven’t followed up on the last one
  • What leaders need to ask themselves before even launching a survey
  • The ego check every executive needs to hear when interpreting feedback
  • How to read the room, ask the right questions, and connect better with your people


Plus: A sealed envelope story you won’t believe, the dangers of survey overload, and what makes someone truly qualified to lead people.


Natalie and Shanté also walk through a clear, practical assessment process, from design to analysis to (you guessed it) actually doing something with the data, and why most companies fall short in the final stretch.


Key takeaway? If your employees don’t feel heard, valued, or supported, you’re not just missing the mark on DEI, you’re leaving real business outcomes on the table. And no, you can’t fix it with a gold star or a ranking badge.


Want to know where your culture really stands? Start by asking and be ready to listen, learn, and lead differently.


Follow & Connect with us:


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> Beyond Bubble Baths: Real Wellness Strategies for Real-World Employees Beyond Bubble Baths: Real Wellness Strategies for Real-World Employees Tue, 29 Apr 2025 04:00:00 GMT 19:42 68093cbf80a1a34ac5c51358 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/68093cbf80a1a34ac5c51358 68093cbf80a1a34ac5c51358 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full In this episode, Natalie and Shanté take a hard look at what wellness in the workplace really means in 2025. Spoiler: it’s not bubble baths, yoga sessions, or sporadic wellness emails. It’s about addressing the real stressors employees face daily and rethinking what effective workplace wellness looks like — beyond surface-level perks.

Episode Highlights:

Wellness Fatigue is Real: Employers rushed to implement wellness programs post-2020, but many initiatives felt like one-off tactics rather than part of a meaningful strategy. Yoga sessions and mobile barbers are great, but are they actually meeting employee needs? Natalie and Shanté break down why so many wellness programs missed the mark.

35% Productivity Drop from Chronic Stress: Shanté shares a striking stat: workers dealing with chronic stress or trauma can experience up to a 35% decrease in productivity. In today’s world of non-stop news cycles, layoffs, and global uncertainty, understanding the link between wellbeing and performance is non-negotiable.

The Employer’s Real Role in Employee Wellbeing: Let’s be clear: employers are not responsible for fixing every employee’s life. But they are responsible for creating psychologically safe workplaces and realistic workloads. If people feel overwhelmed, unsupported, or uncertain about expectations, productivity and morale will plummet.

Stop Playing Wellness Darts: Throwing random perks at employees and hoping they stick is not a strategy. Wellness needs to be operationalized and integrated into the flow of work itself — not treated as an add-on or afterthought.


Key Takeaways:

  • Focus your wellness strategy on what employees need to be well at work, not outside of it.
  • Prioritize psychological safety and manageable workloads as your main contributions to employee wellbeing.
  • Be honest and transparent about workplace realities. Trust is foundational.
  • Check in with your people regularly and act on their feedback — not just for engagement scores, but for real improvement.
  • Skip the fluff and build meaningful, sustainable practices reflecting your workplace culture.

Favorite Quote of the Episode: 

“If you don’t consider people’s humanity, we’ll keep getting headlines of people getting laid off. And if you think your people aren’t enough to drive your business goals, you’ve already lost.” — Natalie Norfus

Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> In this episode, Natalie and Shanté take a hard look at what wellness in the workplace really means in 2025. Spoiler: it’s not bubble baths, yoga sessions, or sporadic wellness emails. It’s about addressing the real stressors employees face daily and rethinking what effective workplace wellness looks like — beyond surface-level perks.

Episode Highlights:

Wellness Fatigue is Real: Employers rushed to implement wellness programs post-2020, but many initiatives felt like one-off tactics rather than part of a meaningful strategy. Yoga sessions and mobile barbers are great, but are they actually meeting employee needs? Natalie and Shanté break down why so many wellness programs missed the mark.

35% Productivity Drop from Chronic Stress: Shanté shares a striking stat: workers dealing with chronic stress or trauma can experience up to a 35% decrease in productivity. In today’s world of non-stop news cycles, layoffs, and global uncertainty, understanding the link between wellbeing and performance is non-negotiable.

The Employer’s Real Role in Employee Wellbeing: Let’s be clear: employers are not responsible for fixing every employee’s life. But they are responsible for creating psychologically safe workplaces and realistic workloads. If people feel overwhelmed, unsupported, or uncertain about expectations, productivity and morale will plummet.

Stop Playing Wellness Darts: Throwing random perks at employees and hoping they stick is not a strategy. Wellness needs to be operationalized and integrated into the flow of work itself — not treated as an add-on or afterthought.


Key Takeaways:

  • Focus your wellness strategy on what employees need to be well at work, not outside of it.
  • Prioritize psychological safety and manageable workloads as your main contributions to employee wellbeing.
  • Be honest and transparent about workplace realities. Trust is foundational.
  • Check in with your people regularly and act on their feedback — not just for engagement scores, but for real improvement.
  • Skip the fluff and build meaningful, sustainable practices reflecting your workplace culture.

Favorite Quote of the Episode: 

“If you don’t consider people’s humanity, we’ll keep getting headlines of people getting laid off. And if you think your people aren’t enough to drive your business goals, you’ve already lost.” — Natalie Norfus

Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> Wellness Is More Than a Webinar: Lessons from 2020, Needs in 2025 Wellness Is More Than a Webinar: Lessons from 2020, Needs in 2025 Wed, 23 Apr 2025 19:05:27 GMT 26:12 680939f662bc64ade3df4e83 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/680939f662bc64ade3df4e83 680939f662bc64ade3df4e83 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Natalie and Shanté unpack the evolution of workplace wellness — from the pandemic-fueled rush of 2020 to the complex realities of 2025. Spoiler alert: your occasional meditation webinar or EAP reminder isn’t cutting it.

As the weight of today’s world presses harder — with unrelenting news cycles, social tensions, and workplace uncertainty — employees carry more than just their workloads. Natalie and Shanté share candid stories, real client examples, and hard-won insights into why “wellness” can no longer be an afterthought or a surface-level initiative.

In this episode, they dive into:

Why avoidance isn’t an option: In today’s climate, stress and overwhelm find us no matter how much we try to disconnect. Leaders can’t ignore it.

The band-aid era of wellness (and why it failed): Remember those one-off yoga classes, pop-up meditation apps, and random wellness perks? Yeah, employees do too — and they saw right through it.

Short-sighted strategies vs. intentional programs: Quick fixes aren’t enough. Employees crave meaningful, well-thought-out initiatives grounded in genuine care and consistency.

Trust and Transparency: Wellness efforts fall flat when leaders don’t clearly communicate intent, purpose, or outcomes. If you’re asking employees what they need, be ready to act.

The patience factor: Building a sustainable culture of wellness takes time. Like a great party, it doesn’t hit capacity on day one.

Wellness will look different in 2025. What worked in 2020 doesn’t necessarily fit today’s challenges. Wellness must evolve alongside employee needs, workplace dynamics, and societal shifts.

Honesty is wellness: If you can’t properly resource wellness, be transparent. Employees value clarity over empty gestures.

Employers aren’t saviors (and that’s okay): You don’t have to be all things to everyone. Define your role clearly, and manage expectations authentically. 

Key Takeaways:

✔️ Wellness is no longer a “nice to have” — it’s essential to sustaining your workforce in turbulent times.

✔️ Consistency and clarity build trust. Flashy programs with no follow-through break it.

✔️ Understand your employees’ realities. Use data, but only if you’re committed to meaningful action.

✔️ Focus on humanity over hollow perks. Show you care through real, tangible efforts.

✔️ You can’t solve everything, but you can be clear about what you will do.

Quote of the Episode: “2025 feels like it needs to be the year of humanity. If you don’t care, don’t ask.” — Natalie Norfus

Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Natalie and Shanté unpack the evolution of workplace wellness — from the pandemic-fueled rush of 2020 to the complex realities of 2025. Spoiler alert: your occasional meditation webinar or EAP reminder isn’t cutting it.

As the weight of today’s world presses harder — with unrelenting news cycles, social tensions, and workplace uncertainty — employees carry more than just their workloads. Natalie and Shanté share candid stories, real client examples, and hard-won insights into why “wellness” can no longer be an afterthought or a surface-level initiative.

In this episode, they dive into:

Why avoidance isn’t an option: In today’s climate, stress and overwhelm find us no matter how much we try to disconnect. Leaders can’t ignore it.

The band-aid era of wellness (and why it failed): Remember those one-off yoga classes, pop-up meditation apps, and random wellness perks? Yeah, employees do too — and they saw right through it.

Short-sighted strategies vs. intentional programs: Quick fixes aren’t enough. Employees crave meaningful, well-thought-out initiatives grounded in genuine care and consistency.

Trust and Transparency: Wellness efforts fall flat when leaders don’t clearly communicate intent, purpose, or outcomes. If you’re asking employees what they need, be ready to act.

The patience factor: Building a sustainable culture of wellness takes time. Like a great party, it doesn’t hit capacity on day one.

Wellness will look different in 2025. What worked in 2020 doesn’t necessarily fit today’s challenges. Wellness must evolve alongside employee needs, workplace dynamics, and societal shifts.

Honesty is wellness: If you can’t properly resource wellness, be transparent. Employees value clarity over empty gestures.

Employers aren’t saviors (and that’s okay): You don’t have to be all things to everyone. Define your role clearly, and manage expectations authentically. 

Key Takeaways:

✔️ Wellness is no longer a “nice to have” — it’s essential to sustaining your workforce in turbulent times.

✔️ Consistency and clarity build trust. Flashy programs with no follow-through break it.

✔️ Understand your employees’ realities. Use data, but only if you’re committed to meaningful action.

✔️ Focus on humanity over hollow perks. Show you care through real, tangible efforts.

✔️ You can’t solve everything, but you can be clear about what you will do.

Quote of the Episode: “2025 feels like it needs to be the year of humanity. If you don’t care, don’t ask.” — Natalie Norfus

Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> Beyond ‘Keep It Professional’: How to Prepare for Charged Conversations at Work Beyond ‘Keep It Professional’: How to Prepare for Charged Conversations at Work Tue, 15 Apr 2025 04:00:00 GMT 31:52 67fd7bbd89f827a87353c61d false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/67fd7bbd89f827a87353c61d 67fd7bbd89f827a87353c61d 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full Just keeping it professional doesn’t cut it anymore. In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Natalie Norfus and Shanté Gordon continue the conversation from their last episode, moving from the “why” to the “how” of handling unavoidable political and sensitive conversations in the workplace.

Natalie and Shanté acknowledge the new reality: everything feels political in 2025. Issues of identity, safety, livelihood, and belonging have all become part of the workplace experience. Leaders and employers can no longer rely on outdated best practices like “no politics at work.” The truth? Conversations are happening whether you allow them or not.

The real question is: How do you create a container for these conversations that supports your people and protects your culture?

Spoiler: It starts with clarity, continues with training, and succeeds through intentional action.

In this episode, we explore:


Key Takeaways:

• Avoidance isn’t a strategy. Conversations about politics and identity are already happening. Ignoring them won’t make them disappear — but intentional structure can prevent chaos.

• Your managers are on the front lines. Without proper tools, they’ll feel stuck in the middle. Train and empower them, so they don’t feel like they’re set up to fail.

• If you create spaces for dialogue, do it well. Vague sessions with no clear outcome erode trust. Clarity and professional facilitation are non-negotiable.

• Concerns need a clear home. Without clear escalation paths, problems will explode in ways you can’t control. Make sure employees know exactly where to go — and follow up.

• Leadership stamina matters. Brace yourself: more issues are coming. Build resilience, focus on what you can control, and don’t take it personally.

🎙️ Natalie & Shanté’s Advice:

Set the standard. Train your managers. Create spaces intentionally. Handle feedback like a pro. You’ll save yourself (and your team) time, stress, and plenty of future headaches.

Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> Just keeping it professional doesn’t cut it anymore. In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Natalie Norfus and Shanté Gordon continue the conversation from their last episode, moving from the “why” to the “how” of handling unavoidable political and sensitive conversations in the workplace.

Natalie and Shanté acknowledge the new reality: everything feels political in 2025. Issues of identity, safety, livelihood, and belonging have all become part of the workplace experience. Leaders and employers can no longer rely on outdated best practices like “no politics at work.” The truth? Conversations are happening whether you allow them or not.

The real question is: How do you create a container for these conversations that supports your people and protects your culture?

Spoiler: It starts with clarity, continues with training, and succeeds through intentional action.

In this episode, we explore:


Key Takeaways:

• Avoidance isn’t a strategy. Conversations about politics and identity are already happening. Ignoring them won’t make them disappear — but intentional structure can prevent chaos.

• Your managers are on the front lines. Without proper tools, they’ll feel stuck in the middle. Train and empower them, so they don’t feel like they’re set up to fail.

• If you create spaces for dialogue, do it well. Vague sessions with no clear outcome erode trust. Clarity and professional facilitation are non-negotiable.

• Concerns need a clear home. Without clear escalation paths, problems will explode in ways you can’t control. Make sure employees know exactly where to go — and follow up.

• Leadership stamina matters. Brace yourself: more issues are coming. Build resilience, focus on what you can control, and don’t take it personally.

🎙️ Natalie & Shanté’s Advice:

Set the standard. Train your managers. Create spaces intentionally. Handle feedback like a pro. You’ll save yourself (and your team) time, stress, and plenty of future headaches.

Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> The Politics of Silence: Why Avoidance Hurts Workplace Culture The Politics of Silence: Why Avoidance Hurts Workplace Culture Tue, 08 Apr 2025 16:00:29 GMT 26:31 67f5481c0636340b781de4dc false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/67f5481c0636340b781de4dc 67f5481c0636340b781de4dc 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Natalie Norfus and Shanté Gordon get real about a topic many leaders and organizations are struggling to navigate in 2025: Is it even possible to keep politics out of the workplace anymore?

Spoiler: No.

But the conversation doesn’t stop there.

As our co-hosts unpack the current climate—where headlines change by the hour and virtually every aspect of our identities feels politicized—they reflect on a major shift in perspective. Once firm believers that politics had no place at work, they now confront the unavoidable truth: Avoidance is not a strategy.

Instead, Natalie and Shanté explore how silence and avoidance can actually cause more harm than good. They talk candidly about how political dynamics have blurred the line between personal identity and professional life, especially when it comes to workplace culture, belonging, and safety.


Key Takeaways:

• ⚠️ Avoidance isn’t neutral. Silence can unintentionally create exclusion and tension.

• 🗣️ People will talk—whether you want them to or not. Better to create safe spaces for dialogue than to let conversations go underground.

• 🤝 Build trust first. Connection paves the way for productive conversations about tough topics.

• 🧩 Know yourself. Self-awareness is the ultimate leadership skill in uncertain times.

• 🛠️ Leaders: Time to update your playbook. What worked a year ago won’t cut it today. The stakes are too high.

Whether you’re a leader, HR professional, or just someone trying to make sense of your workplace dynamics right now, this episode will give you perspective, strategy, and some much-needed reassurance that you’re not alone in feeling overwhelmed.

And stay tuned for the next episode, where we’ll get tactical: how to create workplace environments that acknowledge today’s realities while still keeping things productive and safe.

Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Natalie Norfus and Shanté Gordon get real about a topic many leaders and organizations are struggling to navigate in 2025: Is it even possible to keep politics out of the workplace anymore?

Spoiler: No.

But the conversation doesn’t stop there.

As our co-hosts unpack the current climate—where headlines change by the hour and virtually every aspect of our identities feels politicized—they reflect on a major shift in perspective. Once firm believers that politics had no place at work, they now confront the unavoidable truth: Avoidance is not a strategy.

Instead, Natalie and Shanté explore how silence and avoidance can actually cause more harm than good. They talk candidly about how political dynamics have blurred the line between personal identity and professional life, especially when it comes to workplace culture, belonging, and safety.


Key Takeaways:

• ⚠️ Avoidance isn’t neutral. Silence can unintentionally create exclusion and tension.

• 🗣️ People will talk—whether you want them to or not. Better to create safe spaces for dialogue than to let conversations go underground.

• 🤝 Build trust first. Connection paves the way for productive conversations about tough topics.

• 🧩 Know yourself. Self-awareness is the ultimate leadership skill in uncertain times.

• 🛠️ Leaders: Time to update your playbook. What worked a year ago won’t cut it today. The stakes are too high.

Whether you’re a leader, HR professional, or just someone trying to make sense of your workplace dynamics right now, this episode will give you perspective, strategy, and some much-needed reassurance that you’re not alone in feeling overwhelmed.

And stay tuned for the next episode, where we’ll get tactical: how to create workplace environments that acknowledge today’s realities while still keeping things productive and safe.

Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> What Resilience Means to Us What Resilience Means to Us Tue, 18 Mar 2025 17:02:27 GMT 42:53 67d9a7238e0ad1dccd8dc99d false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/67d9a7238e0ad1dccd8dc99d 67d9a7238e0ad1dccd8dc99d 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full In this episode of What’s the DEIL, the Norfus Firm team gathers to tackle both the tactical and emotional realities of leading DEI work amid today’s shifting political climate. While news headlines create confusion and panic around the future of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion in organizations, this conversation is a reminder that mission-driven work doesn’t stop because the landscape gets bumpy.

Here’s a closer look at how the TNF team is staying resilient, steady, and strategic as they navigate a volatile moment in time.

Reflections on Resilience: More Than a Buzzword

At the heart of the discussion is a simple but powerful question: How are we individually and collectively building resilience right now?

Each team member shares their perspective. What’s clear from these reflections is that resilience isn’t a one-size-fits-all solution. It’s a dynamic and personal process—and critical to navigating the unpredictable waters of DEI work in 2025.

Weathering the Storm: Resisting Misinformation

As executive orders and political soundbites dominate the headlines, the team recognizes a pattern: misinformation is fueling hysteria. 

Natalie voices her frustration about peers in the legal field spreading false narratives—especially when they should know better. The group agrees that one of their key responsibilities, especially now, is to serve as a steady, fact-based voice.

The takeaway here is simple but critical: fear-based reactions and surface-level media consumption can derail meaningful work. The Norfus Firm is doubling down on educating clients and partners on the actual legal landscape—cutting through the fog to focus on what’s still possible (hint: it’s a lot).

Purpose Over Panic: Eyes on the DEI Mission

Despite the noise, the TNF team’s commitment to their DEI mission remains rock solid. Rather than retreating, they see opportunity. Opportunity to partner with organizations that are just as committed, opportunity to guide leaders who are unsure of the next step, and opportunity to offer clarity amid confusion.

The current political moment is creating hesitation for some organizations—but for others, it’s reinforcing the need to stand firm in their DEI commitments. TNF is positioning itself as a partner for both.

Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> In this episode of What’s the DEIL, the Norfus Firm team gathers to tackle both the tactical and emotional realities of leading DEI work amid today’s shifting political climate. While news headlines create confusion and panic around the future of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion in organizations, this conversation is a reminder that mission-driven work doesn’t stop because the landscape gets bumpy.

Here’s a closer look at how the TNF team is staying resilient, steady, and strategic as they navigate a volatile moment in time.

Reflections on Resilience: More Than a Buzzword

At the heart of the discussion is a simple but powerful question: How are we individually and collectively building resilience right now?

Each team member shares their perspective. What’s clear from these reflections is that resilience isn’t a one-size-fits-all solution. It’s a dynamic and personal process—and critical to navigating the unpredictable waters of DEI work in 2025.

Weathering the Storm: Resisting Misinformation

As executive orders and political soundbites dominate the headlines, the team recognizes a pattern: misinformation is fueling hysteria. 

Natalie voices her frustration about peers in the legal field spreading false narratives—especially when they should know better. The group agrees that one of their key responsibilities, especially now, is to serve as a steady, fact-based voice.

The takeaway here is simple but critical: fear-based reactions and surface-level media consumption can derail meaningful work. The Norfus Firm is doubling down on educating clients and partners on the actual legal landscape—cutting through the fog to focus on what’s still possible (hint: it’s a lot).

Purpose Over Panic: Eyes on the DEI Mission

Despite the noise, the TNF team’s commitment to their DEI mission remains rock solid. Rather than retreating, they see opportunity. Opportunity to partner with organizations that are just as committed, opportunity to guide leaders who are unsure of the next step, and opportunity to offer clarity amid confusion.

The current political moment is creating hesitation for some organizations—but for others, it’s reinforcing the need to stand firm in their DEI commitments. TNF is positioning itself as a partner for both.

Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> From Alphabet Soup to Authenticity: Rethinking Inclusion in DEI From Alphabet Soup to Authenticity: Rethinking Inclusion in DEI Tue, 11 Mar 2025 04:00:00 GMT 25:09 67cf60c257424413a46ff48d false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/67cf60c257424413a46ff48d 67cf60c257424413a46ff48d 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full This episode zeroes in on the overuse of buzzwords in DEI, particularly focusing on “inclusion.” Shante and Natalie note how terms such as diversity, equity, and inclusion often get reduced to an “alphabet soup” that may lose meaning in translation.

Why Inclusion Resonates

Inclusion is highlighted as the most universally relatable aspect of DEI—everyone can connect with the idea of having a place where they belong. Unlike diversity or equity, which can trigger resistance due to misinterpretation or emotional bias, inclusion is seen as neutral and fundamentally human.

Business Impact of Inclusion

The hosts discuss how companies that embed inclusion in their strategies see tangible benefits such as higher engagement scores, improved profitability, and enhanced workplace energy. They emphasize that when employees feel included and able to bring their authentic selves to work, innovation and problem-solving flourish.

Measuring Inclusion

Engagement surveys and other metrics serve as a baseline to track how included employees feel—and these numbers correlate with business performance. Shante and Natalie encourage leaders to use data to validate the positive impact of a truly inclusive culture.

Inclusive Leadership as a Competitive Advantage

Inclusion shouldn’t be treated as a side project. It’s integral to leadership, influencing not only employee retention but also the quality of ideas and the overall success of the organization. Real-life examples are shared, illustrating how inclusive practices lead to creative breakthroughs and stronger team collaboration.

The Human Element & Legacy

The conversation touches on how inclusive leadership impacts legacy, urging leaders to consider how they want to be remembered. Personal anecdotes about the lasting influence of empathetic leadership reinforce the importance of caring about the people behind the numbers.

Key Takeaways:

  • Inclusion is more than just a buzzword—it’s a critical pillar of DEI that drives engagement, innovation, and long-term business success.
  • Leaders are encouraged to move beyond superficial rhetoric and foster an environment where every employee feels authentically valued.

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]]> This episode zeroes in on the overuse of buzzwords in DEI, particularly focusing on “inclusion.” Shante and Natalie note how terms such as diversity, equity, and inclusion often get reduced to an “alphabet soup” that may lose meaning in translation.

Why Inclusion Resonates

Inclusion is highlighted as the most universally relatable aspect of DEI—everyone can connect with the idea of having a place where they belong. Unlike diversity or equity, which can trigger resistance due to misinterpretation or emotional bias, inclusion is seen as neutral and fundamentally human.

Business Impact of Inclusion

The hosts discuss how companies that embed inclusion in their strategies see tangible benefits such as higher engagement scores, improved profitability, and enhanced workplace energy. They emphasize that when employees feel included and able to bring their authentic selves to work, innovation and problem-solving flourish.

Measuring Inclusion

Engagement surveys and other metrics serve as a baseline to track how included employees feel—and these numbers correlate with business performance. Shante and Natalie encourage leaders to use data to validate the positive impact of a truly inclusive culture.

Inclusive Leadership as a Competitive Advantage

Inclusion shouldn’t be treated as a side project. It’s integral to leadership, influencing not only employee retention but also the quality of ideas and the overall success of the organization. Real-life examples are shared, illustrating how inclusive practices lead to creative breakthroughs and stronger team collaboration.

The Human Element & Legacy

The conversation touches on how inclusive leadership impacts legacy, urging leaders to consider how they want to be remembered. Personal anecdotes about the lasting influence of empathetic leadership reinforce the importance of caring about the people behind the numbers.

Key Takeaways:

  • Inclusion is more than just a buzzword—it’s a critical pillar of DEI that drives engagement, innovation, and long-term business success.
  • Leaders are encouraged to move beyond superficial rhetoric and foster an environment where every employee feels authentically valued.

Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> From Hysteria to Healing: Navigating DEI Rollbacks in Unprecedented Times From Hysteria to Healing: Navigating DEI Rollbacks in Unprecedented Times Tue, 04 Mar 2025 05:00:00 GMT 33:41 67c61877f88938cb8eade9a5 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/67c61877f88938cb8eade9a5 67c61877f88938cb8eade9a5 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full Hosts Shante Gordon and Natalie Norfus kick off this episode by acknowledging the unprecedented challenges of the past five years—from the pandemic and natural disasters to political drama—and the resulting collective stress in the workplace.

The DEI Rollback Debate:

  • The conversation dives into the current hysteria around DEI rollbacks, urging listeners not to subscribe to panic or sensational headlines.
  • The hosts stress that while headlines might suggest a dramatic reversal, the core principles of diversity, equity, and inclusion remain crucial for both ethical and business reasons.

Using Data, Not Emotion:

  • Emphasizing a shift from emotional rhetoric to data-driven insights, the hosts advocate for speaking through measurable outcomes.
  • They recount how integrating Six Sigma principles helped transform DEI conversations from passionate pleas into strategic business cases.
  • A standout quote from their discussion: “There is nothing wrong with acknowledging and trying to bridge social and economic gaps.” – Referencing Jamie Dimon’s pragmatic approach.

Actionable Leadership Strategies:

The episode outlines six key tips for leaders facing DEI rollbacks:

  1. Call Out Harmful Practices: Know when and how to address behaviors that undermine inclusion.
  2. Speak Using Industry-Specific Language: Advocate for DEI in a way that resonates with your business context.
  3. Rely on Data: Use hard numbers to make your case rather than solely relying on emotion.
  4. Engage with Thought Leaders & Media: Amplify your message through credible channels.
  5. Partner with Allies: Collaborate with other business leaders, nonprofits, and policy groups who share your vision.
  6. Create a Safe Container: Foster an environment where employees feel secure sharing feedback without fear of retaliation.

Key Takeaways:

  • Despite the noise and reactive policies, DEI remains a fundamental framework that shapes the future of business—driving innovation, retaining top talent, and ultimately, protecting the bottom line.
  • Leaders must balance the urgency of external pressures with the long-term need to support and nurture their workforce.

Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

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]]> Hosts Shante Gordon and Natalie Norfus kick off this episode by acknowledging the unprecedented challenges of the past five years—from the pandemic and natural disasters to political drama—and the resulting collective stress in the workplace.

The DEI Rollback Debate:

  • The conversation dives into the current hysteria around DEI rollbacks, urging listeners not to subscribe to panic or sensational headlines.
  • The hosts stress that while headlines might suggest a dramatic reversal, the core principles of diversity, equity, and inclusion remain crucial for both ethical and business reasons.

Using Data, Not Emotion:

  • Emphasizing a shift from emotional rhetoric to data-driven insights, the hosts advocate for speaking through measurable outcomes.
  • They recount how integrating Six Sigma principles helped transform DEI conversations from passionate pleas into strategic business cases.
  • A standout quote from their discussion: “There is nothing wrong with acknowledging and trying to bridge social and economic gaps.” – Referencing Jamie Dimon’s pragmatic approach.

Actionable Leadership Strategies:

The episode outlines six key tips for leaders facing DEI rollbacks:

  1. Call Out Harmful Practices: Know when and how to address behaviors that undermine inclusion.
  2. Speak Using Industry-Specific Language: Advocate for DEI in a way that resonates with your business context.
  3. Rely on Data: Use hard numbers to make your case rather than solely relying on emotion.
  4. Engage with Thought Leaders & Media: Amplify your message through credible channels.
  5. Partner with Allies: Collaborate with other business leaders, nonprofits, and policy groups who share your vision.
  6. Create a Safe Container: Foster an environment where employees feel secure sharing feedback without fear of retaliation.

Key Takeaways:

  • Despite the noise and reactive policies, DEI remains a fundamental framework that shapes the future of business—driving innovation, retaining top talent, and ultimately, protecting the bottom line.
  • Leaders must balance the urgency of external pressures with the long-term need to support and nurture their workforce.

Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> Navigating DEI Hysteria and Centering Humanity Navigating DEI Hysteria and Centering Humanity Tue, 25 Feb 2025 16:23:13 GMT 27:02 67bd078f36fc42b73fc1993a false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/67bd078f36fc42b73fc1993a 67bd078f36fc42b73fc1993a 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full In this candid episode of What’s the DEIL? Shante and Natalie pull back the curtain on the whirlwind of headlines, hysteria, and heated debates surrounding Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI). With a fresh, homey setup that reflects both their laid-back vibe and commitment to authenticity, the duo explores how today’s DEI controversies often distract from the real work—caring for people in the workplace.



Key Takeaways:

  • Hysteria Is Natural, But Not Productive: The emotional response to DEI debates is understandable—but leaders must not let panic dictate their actions. Instead, focus on measured, informed responses.
  • Facts Over Fiction: Despite the noise, the fundamental principles of diversity, equity, and inclusion remain valid and necessary. Trust reliable data and legal advice over sensational headlines.
  • People First, Always: The core message is to center human well-being. Reactive policies and rushed decisions only serve to alienate employees and reduce productivity.
  • Leadership Is About Empathy: Effective leaders must create a safe space for their teams. This means engaging in genuine, empathetic conversations and not allowing external chaos to erode internal trust.
  • Focus on What You Can Control: In times of national or global uncertainty, it’s crucial to focus on the immediate work environment—ensuring that your organization remains a stable, supportive place for everyone.

Quote of the Episode

“Everything’s not illegal all of a sudden. Read beyond the headlines, center yourself on what’s permissible, and focus on what matters—your people.” — Shante Gordon 

Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> In this candid episode of What’s the DEIL? Shante and Natalie pull back the curtain on the whirlwind of headlines, hysteria, and heated debates surrounding Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI). With a fresh, homey setup that reflects both their laid-back vibe and commitment to authenticity, the duo explores how today’s DEI controversies often distract from the real work—caring for people in the workplace.



Key Takeaways:

  • Hysteria Is Natural, But Not Productive: The emotional response to DEI debates is understandable—but leaders must not let panic dictate their actions. Instead, focus on measured, informed responses.
  • Facts Over Fiction: Despite the noise, the fundamental principles of diversity, equity, and inclusion remain valid and necessary. Trust reliable data and legal advice over sensational headlines.
  • People First, Always: The core message is to center human well-being. Reactive policies and rushed decisions only serve to alienate employees and reduce productivity.
  • Leadership Is About Empathy: Effective leaders must create a safe space for their teams. This means engaging in genuine, empathetic conversations and not allowing external chaos to erode internal trust.
  • Focus on What You Can Control: In times of national or global uncertainty, it’s crucial to focus on the immediate work environment—ensuring that your organization remains a stable, supportive place for everyone.

Quote of the Episode

“Everything’s not illegal all of a sudden. Read beyond the headlines, center yourself on what’s permissible, and focus on what matters—your people.” — Shante Gordon 

Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> Exploring the LEAD Framework for Workplace Culture Leaders Exploring the LEAD Framework for Workplace Culture Leaders Tue, 18 Feb 2025 05:00:00 GMT 32:35 67abce29c6f97f89d82bed6a false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/67abce29c6f97f89d82bed6a 67abce29c6f97f89d82bed6a 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full In this final part of a four-episode series, Natalie and Shanté close the loop on navigating confusing headlines and shifting sentiments about Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI). They present the LEAD framework—four clear steps to guide leaders in creating inclusive workplaces, even amid legal challenges, market pressures, and internal uncertainty.

Episode Highlights

DEI Is Not Dead—It’s Evolving: A quick recap of why seemingly contradictory announcements about “rolling back DEI” don’t actually mean an end to inclusive leadership practices. The importance of long-term thinking instead of scrambling for quick fixes.

Introducing the LEAD Framework

  • L – Listen 
  • E – Evaluate 
  • A – Align
  • D – Deliver

Why Leaders Need to Slow Down to Speed Up: The hidden cost of rushing: wasted resources, half-baked initiatives, and the need to redo or “fix” work multiple times. Embracing small wins and transparency along the way prevents burnout and confusion.

Practical Applications: Making the Framework Real: Taking a monthly “temperature check” of your team using turnover data, performance reviews, and employee sentiment. Identifying key stakeholders early on—HR, project leads, or external partners—to avoid operating in a vacuum.

Data-Driven Decision Making: The power of meaningful metrics to reveal blind spots, not just “stories” or leadership hunches. Why ignoring or resisting uncomfortable data creates even bigger problems down the road.

Strategic Communication as a Leadership Superpower: Sharing progress updates—without oversharing—so employees see that movement is happening. How transparency and open dialogue can foster trust, engagement, and accountability.

Key Takeaways:

  • LEAD with Intent: Listening, Evaluating, Aligning, and Delivering are all critical to making real, lasting progress on inclusivity and culture.
  • Partnerships Matter: Don’t go “streaking” alone. Involve your team, HR, and other stakeholders to ensure comprehensive solutions.
  • Facts, Not Feelings: Ground your decisions in data—both quantitative (turnover, promotions) and qualitative (focus groups, interviews).
  • Steady Progress > Fast Hype: True change doesn’t happen overnight. Regular check-ins, milestones, and transparent updates keep everyone motivated and on track.

Quote of the Episode

“Stop resisting the data. Sometimes it’s uncomfortable—but that’s where growth happens.” — Natalie Norfus


Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!


Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> In this final part of a four-episode series, Natalie and Shanté close the loop on navigating confusing headlines and shifting sentiments about Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI). They present the LEAD framework—four clear steps to guide leaders in creating inclusive workplaces, even amid legal challenges, market pressures, and internal uncertainty.

Episode Highlights

DEI Is Not Dead—It’s Evolving: A quick recap of why seemingly contradictory announcements about “rolling back DEI” don’t actually mean an end to inclusive leadership practices. The importance of long-term thinking instead of scrambling for quick fixes.

Introducing the LEAD Framework

  • L – Listen 
  • E – Evaluate 
  • A – Align
  • D – Deliver

Why Leaders Need to Slow Down to Speed Up: The hidden cost of rushing: wasted resources, half-baked initiatives, and the need to redo or “fix” work multiple times. Embracing small wins and transparency along the way prevents burnout and confusion.

Practical Applications: Making the Framework Real: Taking a monthly “temperature check” of your team using turnover data, performance reviews, and employee sentiment. Identifying key stakeholders early on—HR, project leads, or external partners—to avoid operating in a vacuum.

Data-Driven Decision Making: The power of meaningful metrics to reveal blind spots, not just “stories” or leadership hunches. Why ignoring or resisting uncomfortable data creates even bigger problems down the road.

Strategic Communication as a Leadership Superpower: Sharing progress updates—without oversharing—so employees see that movement is happening. How transparency and open dialogue can foster trust, engagement, and accountability.

Key Takeaways:

  • LEAD with Intent: Listening, Evaluating, Aligning, and Delivering are all critical to making real, lasting progress on inclusivity and culture.
  • Partnerships Matter: Don’t go “streaking” alone. Involve your team, HR, and other stakeholders to ensure comprehensive solutions.
  • Facts, Not Feelings: Ground your decisions in data—both quantitative (turnover, promotions) and qualitative (focus groups, interviews).
  • Steady Progress > Fast Hype: True change doesn’t happen overnight. Regular check-ins, milestones, and transparent updates keep everyone motivated and on track.

Quote of the Episode

“Stop resisting the data. Sometimes it’s uncomfortable—but that’s where growth happens.” — Natalie Norfus


Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!


Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> <![CDATA[Don't Play in People's Faces: Hidden Costs and Impact of DEI]]> Tue, 11 Feb 2025 05:00:00 GMT 28:35 67abc53f9c6f7f7f2816d86a false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/67abc53f9c6f7f7f2816d86a 67abc53f9c6f7f7f2816d86a 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full In this third segment of a four-part series, Natalie and Shanté shine a spotlight on how fluctuating commitments to Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) truly affect the people at work. From a heartbreaking quote about a promotion “forced by DEI” to managers who don’t realize how alienating their comments can be, the hosts break down what these missteps cost organizations—both financially and in employee trust.

Episode Highlights

DEI Confusion on the Ground: Real-world stories of employees who feel undermined and questioned because of DEI “hype” or “backlash” and the ripple effect of a manager telling an employee, “I was forced to promote you because of DEI.”

The Human Toll of “Othering”: Why comments like “I detect an accent” can inadvertently damage trust and how single-focus questions or assumptions can leave people feeling alienated rather than included.

Manager Training (or the Lack Thereof): Why many leaders are ill-equipped to navigate diverse teams and simple tactics (like having a consistent set of icebreaker questions) that can prevent awkward and hurtful exchanges.

Employee Engagement and Quiet Quitting: How disrespectful or confusing workplace experiences drive people to “check out” and why underrepresented employees may opt out of promotions or professional development opportunities to avoid hostility.

Turnover, Hiring, and Employer Brand: How negative internal culture spills into public forums (e.g., Glassdoor), deterring top talent from even applying and the hidden costs of turnover—and how DEI misalignment may be fueling your attrition rates.

Key Takeaways:

  • Lack of Clarity Harms Employees: Mixed messages about DEI leave employees confused about whether they’re valued for their skills or only their identity.
  • Managers Shape Culture Daily: Thoughtless remarks can have huge emotional consequences, undermining trust and productivity.
  • Quiet Quitting Is Real: Employees who feel discounted or “othered” lose engagement and ultimately move on—often silently and at a high cost to the organization.
  • Practical Steps Count: Small actions like standardized icebreakers or mindful one-on-one conversations can drastically reduce miscommunication and culture slip-ups.

Quote of the Episode

“Being promoted is supposed to be a celebration. Hearing ‘I had to do it for DEI’ totally crushed me.” — Anonymous Focus Group Participant

Next Episode Teaser:

Shanté shares a leadership framework for embedding DEI into your organization without the chaos and confusion.

Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> In this third segment of a four-part series, Natalie and Shanté shine a spotlight on how fluctuating commitments to Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) truly affect the people at work. From a heartbreaking quote about a promotion “forced by DEI” to managers who don’t realize how alienating their comments can be, the hosts break down what these missteps cost organizations—both financially and in employee trust.

Episode Highlights

DEI Confusion on the Ground: Real-world stories of employees who feel undermined and questioned because of DEI “hype” or “backlash” and the ripple effect of a manager telling an employee, “I was forced to promote you because of DEI.”

The Human Toll of “Othering”: Why comments like “I detect an accent” can inadvertently damage trust and how single-focus questions or assumptions can leave people feeling alienated rather than included.

Manager Training (or the Lack Thereof): Why many leaders are ill-equipped to navigate diverse teams and simple tactics (like having a consistent set of icebreaker questions) that can prevent awkward and hurtful exchanges.

Employee Engagement and Quiet Quitting: How disrespectful or confusing workplace experiences drive people to “check out” and why underrepresented employees may opt out of promotions or professional development opportunities to avoid hostility.

Turnover, Hiring, and Employer Brand: How negative internal culture spills into public forums (e.g., Glassdoor), deterring top talent from even applying and the hidden costs of turnover—and how DEI misalignment may be fueling your attrition rates.

Key Takeaways:

  • Lack of Clarity Harms Employees: Mixed messages about DEI leave employees confused about whether they’re valued for their skills or only their identity.
  • Managers Shape Culture Daily: Thoughtless remarks can have huge emotional consequences, undermining trust and productivity.
  • Quiet Quitting Is Real: Employees who feel discounted or “othered” lose engagement and ultimately move on—often silently and at a high cost to the organization.
  • Practical Steps Count: Small actions like standardized icebreakers or mindful one-on-one conversations can drastically reduce miscommunication and culture slip-ups.

Quote of the Episode

“Being promoted is supposed to be a celebration. Hearing ‘I had to do it for DEI’ totally crushed me.” — Anonymous Focus Group Participant

Next Episode Teaser:

Shanté shares a leadership framework for embedding DEI into your organization without the chaos and confusion.

Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> We Shouldn’t Have to Say This (Again): The Business Case for DEI in 2025 We Shouldn’t Have to Say This (Again): The Business Case for DEI in 2025 Tue, 04 Feb 2025 05:00:00 GMT 28:05 67abc489b468a1d76fc81549 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/67abc489b468a1d76fc81549 67abc489b468a1d76fc81549 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, hosts Natalie and Shanté cut through the noise around Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI). Despite years of data proving that diverse, equitable, and inclusive workplaces outperform their peers, many organizations still question the need for DEI or treat it as a short-lived initiative. Natalie and Shanté revisit why DEI isn’t just a feel-good program—it’s a critical business strategy for survival, profitability, and innovation in 2025.

Episode Highlights

The Never-Ending “Why” of DEI: Why we still have to defend the business case in 2025, even though research (McKinsey, Morgan Stanley, Glassdoor) has proven DEI’s positive impact on profits, retention, and market agility.

Where DEI Really Belongs: Why folding DEI into HR alone is too narrow and why DEI functions best as a change management framework that touches every corner of an organization—from people processes to product development.

Retooling and Upskilling: The importance of training managers and leaders to see employees as whole people and why inclusive leadership is a learned skill, not just an instinct.

The Power (and Cost) of Turnover: The true financial impact of losing talent when employees don’t feel valued and how investing in DEI can help employers retain a broader pool of talent, reduce turnover costs, and maintain brand integrity.


DEI by the Numbers: A look at real data and hypothetical dollar values that illustrate how top-quartile DEI organizations out-earn and outlast their peers.

Takeaways:

  • DEI = Profitability and Innovation: From higher revenue and stronger profit margins to faster economic recoveries, the research is clear that DEI is an essential component of a successful business strategy.
  • It’s Not an Extra Program—It’s How You Operate: DEI should be woven into the fabric of every business process, not relegated to a sideline department.
  • Retooling Everyone, Not Just the “DEI People”: Inclusive leadership and equitable practices are skill sets all managers and employees must learn, practice, and refine.
  • Clarity = Credibility: Companies must define why DEI matters, align it with core values, and consistently communicate that purpose to avoid employee confusion and distrust.
  • Turnover is Costly: People problems—like high attrition—have direct bottom-line impacts, making DEI’s role in retention even more critical.

Quote of the Episode

“DEI isn’t just a value—it’s a strategy for survival. It’s a mindset shift in how we run our businesses every single day.” — Natalie Norfus

Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, hosts Natalie and Shanté cut through the noise around Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI). Despite years of data proving that diverse, equitable, and inclusive workplaces outperform their peers, many organizations still question the need for DEI or treat it as a short-lived initiative. Natalie and Shanté revisit why DEI isn’t just a feel-good program—it’s a critical business strategy for survival, profitability, and innovation in 2025.

Episode Highlights

The Never-Ending “Why” of DEI: Why we still have to defend the business case in 2025, even though research (McKinsey, Morgan Stanley, Glassdoor) has proven DEI’s positive impact on profits, retention, and market agility.

Where DEI Really Belongs: Why folding DEI into HR alone is too narrow and why DEI functions best as a change management framework that touches every corner of an organization—from people processes to product development.

Retooling and Upskilling: The importance of training managers and leaders to see employees as whole people and why inclusive leadership is a learned skill, not just an instinct.

The Power (and Cost) of Turnover: The true financial impact of losing talent when employees don’t feel valued and how investing in DEI can help employers retain a broader pool of talent, reduce turnover costs, and maintain brand integrity.


DEI by the Numbers: A look at real data and hypothetical dollar values that illustrate how top-quartile DEI organizations out-earn and outlast their peers.

Takeaways:

  • DEI = Profitability and Innovation: From higher revenue and stronger profit margins to faster economic recoveries, the research is clear that DEI is an essential component of a successful business strategy.
  • It’s Not an Extra Program—It’s How You Operate: DEI should be woven into the fabric of every business process, not relegated to a sideline department.
  • Retooling Everyone, Not Just the “DEI People”: Inclusive leadership and equitable practices are skill sets all managers and employees must learn, practice, and refine.
  • Clarity = Credibility: Companies must define why DEI matters, align it with core values, and consistently communicate that purpose to avoid employee confusion and distrust.
  • Turnover is Costly: People problems—like high attrition—have direct bottom-line impacts, making DEI’s role in retention even more critical.

Quote of the Episode

“DEI isn’t just a value—it’s a strategy for survival. It’s a mindset shift in how we run our businesses every single day.” — Natalie Norfus

Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> Why DEI Still Matters in 2025 Why DEI Still Matters in 2025 Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:59:38 GMT 41:10 6793c6fa28da99579c6073ed false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/6793c6fa28da99579c6073ed 6793c6fa28da99579c6073ed 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full In this episode of What’s the DEIL, hosts Natalie Norfus and Shanté Gordon dive into the complexities and challenges surrounding Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) in 2025. As the term continues to face resistance, mischaracterization, and even weaponization, they unpack why DEI remains essential and how organizations can navigate the current landscape.

Key Discussion Points:

Reflecting on 2024: Lessons learned from a challenging year and the importance of intentional rest and spaciousness as we step into 2025.

The DEI Whiplash: Examining the conflicting narratives in the news—companies scaling back on DEI initiatives versus others doubling down on their commitments.

Why DEI Feels Threatening: Understanding the root of resistance and misconceptions about DEI, including the conflation with terms like “woke” and the lack of standardized definitions.

Defining DEI: Breaking down the key elements—diversity, equity, and inclusion—and discussing whether DEI should be treated as a function, a process, or an organizational lens.

The Role of Equity: Exploring why fairness (equity) often ignites the most controversy and clarifying the difference between equality of opportunity and equality of outcome.

DEI as a Business Framework: Why DEI concepts should overlay every aspect of business—from hiring and product development to marketing and operations—rather than being siloed within HR.

Case Studies and Headlines: Insights into Ford’s shifting DEI policies, Meta’s recent announcements, and why “rolling back” might not mean what the headlines suggest.

Psychological Safety and Retention: How fostering trust and fairness in the workplace benefits both employees and business outcomes.

Moving Past Quotas: Why quotas aren’t the solution and how businesses can create sustainable systems to attract and retain diverse talent.

Resilience in DEI: How organizations can withstand external criticism by defining clear goals, building resilience, and aligning DEI with business success.

Takeaways:

  • Words matter. Clarity and transparency about what DEI means in your organization are essential.
  • DEI isn’t a standalone program—it’s a lens for better decision-making and driving innovation.
  • Companies must stop playing in people’s faces and take a stand with confidence in their DEI strategies.

Next Episode Teaser:

Stay tuned for the next segment, where Natalie and Shanté explore the business case for diversity and how it can drive measurable success for your organization.

Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!



Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> In this episode of What’s the DEIL, hosts Natalie Norfus and Shanté Gordon dive into the complexities and challenges surrounding Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) in 2025. As the term continues to face resistance, mischaracterization, and even weaponization, they unpack why DEI remains essential and how organizations can navigate the current landscape.

Key Discussion Points:

Reflecting on 2024: Lessons learned from a challenging year and the importance of intentional rest and spaciousness as we step into 2025.

The DEI Whiplash: Examining the conflicting narratives in the news—companies scaling back on DEI initiatives versus others doubling down on their commitments.

Why DEI Feels Threatening: Understanding the root of resistance and misconceptions about DEI, including the conflation with terms like “woke” and the lack of standardized definitions.

Defining DEI: Breaking down the key elements—diversity, equity, and inclusion—and discussing whether DEI should be treated as a function, a process, or an organizational lens.

The Role of Equity: Exploring why fairness (equity) often ignites the most controversy and clarifying the difference between equality of opportunity and equality of outcome.

DEI as a Business Framework: Why DEI concepts should overlay every aspect of business—from hiring and product development to marketing and operations—rather than being siloed within HR.

Case Studies and Headlines: Insights into Ford’s shifting DEI policies, Meta’s recent announcements, and why “rolling back” might not mean what the headlines suggest.

Psychological Safety and Retention: How fostering trust and fairness in the workplace benefits both employees and business outcomes.

Moving Past Quotas: Why quotas aren’t the solution and how businesses can create sustainable systems to attract and retain diverse talent.

Resilience in DEI: How organizations can withstand external criticism by defining clear goals, building resilience, and aligning DEI with business success.

Takeaways:

  • Words matter. Clarity and transparency about what DEI means in your organization are essential.
  • DEI isn’t a standalone program—it’s a lens for better decision-making and driving innovation.
  • Companies must stop playing in people’s faces and take a stand with confidence in their DEI strategies.

Next Episode Teaser:

Stay tuned for the next segment, where Natalie and Shanté explore the business case for diversity and how it can drive measurable success for your organization.

Follow & Connect with us:

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!



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]]> Beef At Work | Facilitating Conflict in the Workplace: A Trauma-Informed Approach Beef At Work | Facilitating Conflict in the Workplace: A Trauma-Informed Approach Tue, 03 Dec 2024 05:00:16 GMT 26:33 6744880bd5818c4c59faa74f false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/6744880bd5818c4c59faa74f 6744880bd5818c4c59faa74f 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]>

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]]> Beef At Work | Workplace Wars: Mitigating Culture Clashes through Workplace Culture Assessments Beef At Work | Workplace Wars: Mitigating Culture Clashes through Workplace Culture Assessments Tue, 19 Nov 2024 05:00:19 GMT 27:51 673b4e9c79980662a9611ded false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/673b4e9c79980662a9611ded 673b4e9c79980662a9611ded 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]>

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]]> Beef At Work | Workplace Culture: Rise in conflicts among senior leaders Beef At Work | Workplace Culture: Rise in conflicts among senior leaders Tue, 05 Nov 2024 19:06:03 GMT 32:40 672a6c9bafa9526ed46ab6a8 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/672a6c9bafa9526ed46ab6a8 672a6c9bafa9526ed46ab6a8 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full In this episode of What's The DEIL?, we dive into a growing challenge in the workplace: the rise of conflicts among senior leaders. As competition, high-stakes decision-making, and differing leadership styles escalate, conflicts at the top levels of organizations are becoming more common and complex. But what’s fueling these tensions, and how can organizations address them without compromising productivity or culture?


Join us as we explore the root causes of senior leadership conflicts, the impact on workplace morale and organizational success, and strategies for fostering collaboration and effective conflict resolution. With insights from our DEI-focused approach, this episode sheds light on how to transform workplace ""beef"" into opportunities for growth and unity.

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]]> In this episode of What's The DEIL?, we dive into a growing challenge in the workplace: the rise of conflicts among senior leaders. As competition, high-stakes decision-making, and differing leadership styles escalate, conflicts at the top levels of organizations are becoming more common and complex. But what’s fueling these tensions, and how can organizations address them without compromising productivity or culture?


Join us as we explore the root causes of senior leadership conflicts, the impact on workplace morale and organizational success, and strategies for fostering collaboration and effective conflict resolution. With insights from our DEI-focused approach, this episode sheds light on how to transform workplace ""beef"" into opportunities for growth and unity.

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]]> <![CDATA[It's Lonely at the Top....Still ft. Amira Alvarez ]]> Tue, 08 Oct 2024 04:00:33 GMT 36:14 6703f2ecc88f09c3e0fab208 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/6703f2ecc88f09c3e0fab208 6703f2ecc88f09c3e0fab208 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full On the latest episode of What's The DEIL?, we had the honor of hosting Amira Alvarez for a powerful discussion on a critical topic: In 2024, senior women continue to be a largely underrepresented group in most organizations.


When women rise to senior leadership, they often find themselves as “one of only” or one of very few in the room. This episode dives into how the scarcity of women at the top impacts those who reach these roles, and what organizations need to be mindful of when advancing women to senior leadership positions.


Tune in to hear Amira's valuable insights and explore actionable strategies for creating more inclusive leadership environments.

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]]> On the latest episode of What's The DEIL?, we had the honor of hosting Amira Alvarez for a powerful discussion on a critical topic: In 2024, senior women continue to be a largely underrepresented group in most organizations.


When women rise to senior leadership, they often find themselves as “one of only” or one of very few in the room. This episode dives into how the scarcity of women at the top impacts those who reach these roles, and what organizations need to be mindful of when advancing women to senior leadership positions.


Tune in to hear Amira's valuable insights and explore actionable strategies for creating more inclusive leadership environments.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> Beef At Work | Workplace Culture: Is it Race? Is It Personality? Beef At Work | Workplace Culture: Is it Race? Is It Personality? Tue, 24 Sep 2024 04:00:41 GMT 26:33 66f1ce56df5b4a5829d5c35e false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/66f1ce56df5b4a5829d5c35e 66f1ce56df5b4a5829d5c35e 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full In this episode of What's The DEIL?, we dive into the intersection of election season and workplace dynamics, exploring how the once-taboo topic of politics is now making its way into our professional lives. We’ll discuss the impact of political discussions on workplace relationships and productivity, and why it's crucial to maintain a healthy work environment during these politically charged times.


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]]> In this episode of What's The DEIL?, we dive into the intersection of election season and workplace dynamics, exploring how the once-taboo topic of politics is now making its way into our professional lives. We’ll discuss the impact of political discussions on workplace relationships and productivity, and why it's crucial to maintain a healthy work environment during these politically charged times.


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]]> Workplace Culture: Is it Race? Is It Personality? Workplace Culture: Is it Race? Is It Personality? Tue, 10 Sep 2024 04:00:32 GMT 32:53 66df639cedd5444399287627 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/66df639cedd5444399287627 66df639cedd5444399287627 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]>

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]]> Cultural Appreciation: Part 2 Cultural Appreciation: Part 2 Tue, 30 Jul 2024 04:00:17 GMT 15:58 668c0ca66ff6fe1a79a8694f false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/668c0ca66ff6fe1a79a8694f 668c0ca66ff6fe1a79a8694f 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]>

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]]> Cultural Appropriation: Part 1 Cultural Appropriation: Part 1 Tue, 16 Jul 2024 04:00:13 GMT 15:52 668c0c666ff6fe1a79a862d0 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/668c0c666ff6fe1a79a862d0 668c0c666ff6fe1a79a862d0 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full In Part 1 of our exploration of cultural appropriation, we unpack the complexities surrounding this issue. Through reaction posts and expert insights, we discuss instances of cultural appropriation related to black hairstyles, ornamentation, and costumes, especially during Halloween. Our guest, possibly a yoga teacher, offers perspectives on cultural appreciation versus appropriation and the importance of respectful cultural engagement.


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]]> In Part 1 of our exploration of cultural appropriation, we unpack the complexities surrounding this issue. Through reaction posts and expert insights, we discuss instances of cultural appropriation related to black hairstyles, ornamentation, and costumes, especially during Halloween. Our guest, possibly a yoga teacher, offers perspectives on cultural appreciation versus appropriation and the importance of respectful cultural engagement.


Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> Unconscious Bias Training: Challenging Assumptions and Fostering Inclusion Unconscious Bias Training: Challenging Assumptions and Fostering Inclusion Tue, 02 Jul 2024 04:00:40 GMT 22:23 668303afda59509cbac839a9 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/668303afda59509cbac839a9 668303afda59509cbac839a9 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]>

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]]> Metrics That Matter: Decoding Diversity and Inclusion Success Ft. Leah Wade Metrics That Matter: Decoding Diversity and Inclusion Success Ft. Leah Wade Tue, 18 Jun 2024 04:00:52 GMT 35:07 66671acc347d870012515a2d false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/66671acc347d870012515a2d 66671acc347d870012515a2d 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]>

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]]> Intersectionality: Caribbean American History and LGBTQ+ Pride Month Intersectionality: Caribbean American History and LGBTQ+ Pride Month Tue, 04 Jun 2024 18:06:13 GMT 26:30 665f5795aa134f001230efe7 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/665f5795aa134f001230efe7 665f5795aa134f001230efe7 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]>

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]]> Unveiling Maternal Mortality Disparities with Judge Glenda Hatchett Unveiling Maternal Mortality Disparities with Judge Glenda Hatchett Tue, 21 May 2024 04:00:35 GMT 42:09 664b76045c087300125cb3b1 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/664b76045c087300125cb3b1 664b76045c087300125cb3b1 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]>

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]]> Folks Are Still Not Ok: Nurturing Mental Health Folks Are Still Not Ok: Nurturing Mental Health Tue, 07 May 2024 04:00:53 GMT 25:52 66393954793d4000132a29f4 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/66393954793d4000132a29f4 66393954793d4000132a29f4 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]>

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]]> Unpacking the Drama Behind Anti-DEI Legislation Unpacking the Drama Behind Anti-DEI Legislation Tue, 23 Apr 2024 04:00:15 GMT 26:40 662178c9af71a4001352dec5 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/662178c9af71a4001352dec5 662178c9af71a4001352dec5 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]>

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]]> DEI Discussions in 2024: Insights and Reactions from Social Media DEI Discussions in 2024: Insights and Reactions from Social Media Tue, 09 Apr 2024 04:00:36 GMT 34:18 66144e9bf954310016312832 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/66144e9bf954310016312832 66144e9bf954310016312832 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full Join us in this hilarious yet enlightening episode as we dive headfirst into the world of DEI comments on social media. From eyebrow-raising moments to jaw-dropping revelations, we dissect the good, the bad, and the downright amusing. Get ready for a rollercoaster of reactions and, of course, some serious insights that will leave you both chuckling and pondering the state of diversity, equity, and inclusion in the digital age. It's time to LOL and learn! 🎙️🌐


#DEILaughs #SocialMediaUnfiltered #PodcastInsights

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]]> Join us in this hilarious yet enlightening episode as we dive headfirst into the world of DEI comments on social media. From eyebrow-raising moments to jaw-dropping revelations, we dissect the good, the bad, and the downright amusing. Get ready for a rollercoaster of reactions and, of course, some serious insights that will leave you both chuckling and pondering the state of diversity, equity, and inclusion in the digital age. It's time to LOL and learn! 🎙️🌐


#DEILaughs #SocialMediaUnfiltered #PodcastInsights

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]]> Leading the Shift: Ft. Sarah Noll Wilson [Part 2] Leading the Shift: Ft. Sarah Noll Wilson [Part 2] Tue, 26 Mar 2024 04:00:22 GMT 24:22 65fc88892f72c1001643cfee false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/65fc88892f72c1001643cfee 65fc88892f72c1001643cfee 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full Welcome back to the second part of our series on behavior change in organizational leadership! Building upon our foundation from the first episode, we now shift our focus to actionable strategies for leaders aiming to spearhead lasting change within their organizations. Our esteemed guests share valuable insights, real-world examples, and practical tips to empower leaders in navigating and leading the transformative journey. Don't miss out on this continued conversation about shaping the future of organizational leadership through intentional behavior change. Drop your comments below and share your thoughts on intentional inclusionism. What steps are you taking to foster intentional inclusion in your life?


🔗 Follow The Norfus Firm on Social Media:

Instagram

LinkedIn

Facebook


#DEILPodcast #IntentionalInclusion #DiversityEquityInclusion #DEIConversations #PodcastEpisode #InclusiveLeadership #WhatIsTheDEIL #DEI #Inclusivity #leadership

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]]> Welcome back to the second part of our series on behavior change in organizational leadership! Building upon our foundation from the first episode, we now shift our focus to actionable strategies for leaders aiming to spearhead lasting change within their organizations. Our esteemed guests share valuable insights, real-world examples, and practical tips to empower leaders in navigating and leading the transformative journey. Don't miss out on this continued conversation about shaping the future of organizational leadership through intentional behavior change. Drop your comments below and share your thoughts on intentional inclusionism. What steps are you taking to foster intentional inclusion in your life?


🔗 Follow The Norfus Firm on Social Media:

Instagram

LinkedIn

Facebook


#DEILPodcast #IntentionalInclusion #DiversityEquityInclusion #DEIConversations #PodcastEpisode #InclusiveLeadership #WhatIsTheDEIL #DEI #Inclusivity #leadership

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]]> Catalyzing Change: Unveiling the Dynamics of Behavior Change in Leadership ft. Sarah Noll Wilson [Part 1] Catalyzing Change: Unveiling the Dynamics of Behavior Change in Leadership ft. Sarah Noll Wilson [Part 1] Tue, 12 Mar 2024 04:00:41 GMT 21:45 65e745b212433100160a84a0 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/65e745b212433100160a84a0 65e745b212433100160a84a0 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full In this insightful episode, Natalie and Shanté delve into the intricate world of behavior change within organizational leadership. Our expert guest, Sarah Noil Wilson unravels the psychological aspects, challenges, and effective strategies for fostering meaningful transformations in leadership behavior. Join us for a deep exploration into the catalysts that drive change and the pivotal role it plays in shaping successful leaders.


Drop your comments below and share your thoughts on intentional inclusionism. What steps are you taking to foster intentional inclusion in your life?


🔗 Follow The Norfus Firm on Social Media:

Instagram

LinkedIn

Facebook


#DEILPodcast #IntentionalInclusion #DiversityEquityInclusion #DEIConversations #PodcastEpisode #InclusiveLeadership #WhatIsTheDEIL #DEI #Inclusivity #leadership

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]]> In this insightful episode, Natalie and Shanté delve into the intricate world of behavior change within organizational leadership. Our expert guest, Sarah Noil Wilson unravels the psychological aspects, challenges, and effective strategies for fostering meaningful transformations in leadership behavior. Join us for a deep exploration into the catalysts that drive change and the pivotal role it plays in shaping successful leaders.


Drop your comments below and share your thoughts on intentional inclusionism. What steps are you taking to foster intentional inclusion in your life?


🔗 Follow The Norfus Firm on Social Media:

Instagram

LinkedIn

Facebook


#DEILPodcast #IntentionalInclusion #DiversityEquityInclusion #DEIConversations #PodcastEpisode #InclusiveLeadership #WhatIsTheDEIL #DEI #Inclusivity #leadership

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]]> Intentional Inclusionist ft. Nika White Intentional Inclusionist ft. Nika White Tue, 27 Feb 2024 05:00:12 GMT 25:08 65dcd0f58be42100169704ac false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/65dcd0f58be42100169704ac 65dcd0f58be42100169704ac 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full In this thought-provoking episode of the "What's the DEIL?" podcast, hosts Natalie and Shanté dive deep into the world of intentional inclusion with Nika White. As an expert in diversity, equity, and inclusion, Nika brings her wealth of knowledge to the conversation, exploring the significance of intentional inclusionism and its impact on workplaces and communities.


👥 Featured Guest:

🌟 Nika White - The Intentional Inclusionist, Author, and DEI Strategist. 📣 Share your Thoughts:

Drop your comments below and share your thoughts on intentional inclusionism. What steps are you taking to foster intentional inclusion in your life?


🔗 Follow The Norfus Firm on Social Media:

Instagram

LinkedIn

Facebook


#DEILPodcast #IntentionalInclusion #DiversityEquityInclusion #DEIConversations #PodcastEpisode #InclusiveLeadership #WhatIsTheDEIL #DEI #Inclusivity

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]]> In this thought-provoking episode of the "What's the DEIL?" podcast, hosts Natalie and Shanté dive deep into the world of intentional inclusion with Nika White. As an expert in diversity, equity, and inclusion, Nika brings her wealth of knowledge to the conversation, exploring the significance of intentional inclusionism and its impact on workplaces and communities.


👥 Featured Guest:

🌟 Nika White - The Intentional Inclusionist, Author, and DEI Strategist. 📣 Share your Thoughts:

Drop your comments below and share your thoughts on intentional inclusionism. What steps are you taking to foster intentional inclusion in your life?


🔗 Follow The Norfus Firm on Social Media:

Instagram

LinkedIn

Facebook


#DEILPodcast #IntentionalInclusion #DiversityEquityInclusion #DEIConversations #PodcastEpisode #InclusiveLeadership #WhatIsTheDEIL #DEI #Inclusivity

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]]> From clueless to culturally intelligent ft. Loren Rosario-Maldonado From clueless to culturally intelligent ft. Loren Rosario-Maldonado Tue, 06 Feb 2024 16:29:39 GMT 19:03 65c25e759f16b50017d398c4 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/65c25e759f16b50017d398c4 65c25e759f16b50017d398c4 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]>

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]]> The fallacy of meritocracy The fallacy of meritocracy Tue, 23 Jan 2024 16:40:42 GMT 21:27 65a05301da9c520016cec59d false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/65a05301da9c520016cec59d 65a05301da9c520016cec59d 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]>

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]]> Revisiting our favorite moments of “What’s the DEIL?” Revisiting our favorite moments of “What’s the DEIL?” Tue, 09 Jan 2024 05:00:51 GMT 17:37 659c60ab55d0e200153579ee false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/659c60ab55d0e200153579ee 659c60ab55d0e200153579ee 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full Natalie and Shanté reminisce about a year of amazing conversations.



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]]> Natalie and Shanté reminisce about a year of amazing conversations.



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]]> 2023 in a nutshell: our learnings 2023 in a nutshell: our learnings Tue, 19 Dec 2023 05:00:57 GMT 20:32 6579f0737a12a800127899b2 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/6579f0737a12a800127899b2 6579f0737a12a800127899b2 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]>

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]]> Why invest in diversity? ft. Tiffany Gooden Why invest in diversity? ft. Tiffany Gooden Tue, 05 Dec 2023 05:00:29 GMT 28:27 656a11600c4b410012eca5f2 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/656a11600c4b410012eca5f2 656a11600c4b410012eca5f2 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]>

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]]> (Not) safe for work ft. Ben Delk (Not) safe for work ft. Ben Delk Tue, 21 Nov 2023 05:00:25 GMT 30:33 6557d4b16a413b00123805f6 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/6557d4b16a413b00123805f6 6557d4b16a413b00123805f6 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full Shanté and Natalie talk with human rights and inclusion expert Ben Delk about fostering psychological safety.


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]]> Shanté and Natalie talk with human rights and inclusion expert Ben Delk about fostering psychological safety.


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]]> Resuscitating DEI Resuscitating DEI Tue, 07 Nov 2023 05:00:10 GMT 22:12 6549356a7eaf1300121e0266 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/6549356a7eaf1300121e0266 6549356a7eaf1300121e0266 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]>

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]]> Anti-woke is anti-business Anti-woke is anti-business Tue, 24 Oct 2023 04:00:05 GMT 21:18 653019abe700940012d65e49 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/653019abe700940012d65e49 653019abe700940012d65e49 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]>

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]]> Don’t diss the data ft. Dr. Victoria Mattingly Don’t diss the data ft. Dr. Victoria Mattingly Tue, 10 Oct 2023 04:00:22 GMT 26:25 652458d3e2e006001243da92 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/652458d3e2e006001243da92 652458d3e2e006001243da92 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]>

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]]> Summer recap: what a season full of travel taught us about DEI Summer recap: what a season full of travel taught us about DEI Tue, 26 Sep 2023 18:07:45 GMT 24:30 65131df3d90fb600115f9271 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/65131df3d90fb600115f9271 65131df3d90fb600115f9271 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]> <![CDATA[Boomers, Gen Z, and Avoiding 'Generation Wars' in the Workplace ft. Prof. Tiffany Atkins]]> Tue, 12 Sep 2023 18:11:02 GMT 31:14 64ee47be7a1a3800116313f6 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/64ee47be7a1a3800116313f6 64ee47be7a1a3800116313f6 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]> Being an effective leader in a country you’re not from ft. Professor Alberto Benítez Being an effective leader in a country you’re not from ft. Professor Alberto Benítez Tue, 29 Aug 2023 18:52:59 GMT 26:14 64ee3e8b5464d5001186c628 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/64ee3e8b5464d5001186c628 64ee3e8b5464d5001186c628 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]> Supporting an immigrant workforce ft. Professor Alberto Benitez Supporting an immigrant workforce ft. Professor Alberto Benitez Tue, 15 Aug 2023 04:00:32 GMT 23:05 64d65402e824fa00115e58d1 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/64d65402e824fa00115e58d1 64d65402e824fa00115e58d1 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]> Folks are not OK! Folks are not OK! Tue, 01 Aug 2023 04:00:05 GMT 23:05 64c7ec9d28d67b001134519f false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/64c7ec9d28d67b001134519f 64c7ec9d28d67b001134519f 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]>

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]]> Do DEI professionals take care of themselves? ft. Charlene Brown Do DEI professionals take care of themselves? ft. Charlene Brown Tue, 18 Jul 2023 04:00:58 GMT 13:32 64ac3a1e4d8892001029a52d false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/64ac3a1e4d8892001029a52d 64ac3a1e4d8892001029a52d 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]>

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]]> <![CDATA[Not everyone's meant to be doing international DEI work ft. Charlene Brown]]> Tue, 04 Jul 2023 04:00:27 GMT 21:30 6491edbd6b359d00114ccf55 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/6491edbd6b359d00114ccf55 6491edbd6b359d00114ccf55 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]>

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]]> Making DEI useful in multinational companies ft. Charlene Brown Making DEI useful in multinational companies ft. Charlene Brown Tue, 20 Jun 2023 04:00:01 GMT 19:11 648cb9aa26fb21001151b308 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/648cb9aa26fb21001151b308 648cb9aa26fb21001151b308 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]>

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]]> Is DEI an American issue? ft. Charlene Brown Is DEI an American issue? ft. Charlene Brown Tue, 06 Jun 2023 04:00:59 GMT 13:52 647e3082e2840f0011bb39f4 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/647e3082e2840f0011bb39f4 647e3082e2840f0011bb39f4 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]>

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]]> Allyship (Part 5) ft. Rafael Langer-Osuna Allyship (Part 5) ft. Rafael Langer-Osuna Tue, 09 May 2023 04:00:52 GMT 34:17 6449527881192400119fef15 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/6449527881192400119fef15 6449527881192400119fef15 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]>

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]]> Allyship (Part 4) ft. Clive Chang Allyship (Part 4) ft. Clive Chang Tue, 25 Apr 2023 04:00:29 GMT 30:02 64418c51a189ca00112f7b31 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/64418c51a189ca00112f7b31 64418c51a189ca00112f7b31 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]>

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]]> Allyship (Part 3) ft. Bunmi Emenanjo Allyship (Part 3) ft. Bunmi Emenanjo Tue, 11 Apr 2023 04:00:28 GMT 25:50 642daa2263f9a2001122d329 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/642daa2263f9a2001122d329 642daa2263f9a2001122d329 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]> Allyship (Part 2) ft. Sarah Rathke Allyship (Part 2) ft. Sarah Rathke Tue, 28 Mar 2023 04:00:07 GMT 19:39 6419e13c5b5da900117780d9 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/6419e13c5b5da900117780d9 6419e13c5b5da900117780d9 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full Law firm partner Sarah Rathke joins Natalie and Shanté to discuss how allyship changes in relation to power, knowing when to be loud about your views, and more in this second episode of our allyship series.



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]]> Law firm partner Sarah Rathke joins Natalie and Shanté to discuss how allyship changes in relation to power, knowing when to be loud about your views, and more in this second episode of our allyship series.



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]]> Defining allyship Defining allyship Tue, 14 Mar 2023 04:00:43 GMT 20:25 63f65c12743d620011ba8a6f false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/63f65c12743d620011ba8a6f 63f65c12743d620011ba8a6f 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]> Closing the Loop: Diverse Talent Pools + Labor Shortages Closing the Loop: Diverse Talent Pools + Labor Shortages Tue, 28 Feb 2023 05:00:45 GMT 15:48 63da9af507b5b9001136019a false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/63da9af507b5b9001136019a 63da9af507b5b9001136019a 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]>

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]]> How to hold space for your employees How to hold space for your employees Tue, 14 Feb 2023 05:00:50 GMT 14:35 63e3d94f2b0e2f0011299335 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/63e3d94f2b0e2f0011299335 63e3d94f2b0e2f0011299335 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]> <![CDATA[Recession & Retention]]> Tue, 31 Jan 2023 05:00:11 GMT 19:21 63d43bbdc552d90011518bad false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/63d43bbdc552d90011518bad 63d43bbdc552d90011518bad 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]>

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]]> Neurodiversity in the workplace Neurodiversity in the workplace Tue, 24 Jan 2023 05:00:24 GMT 17:17 63c99ddf8c482b001077d2a5 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/63c99ddf8c482b001077d2a5 63c99ddf8c482b001077d2a5 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]> <![CDATA[Problematizing "professionalism"]]> Tue, 17 Jan 2023 16:29:35 GMT 11:09 63c6ccf2aadfd200100e7a64 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/63c6ccf2aadfd200100e7a64 63c6ccf2aadfd200100e7a64 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full

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]]> How is DEI Connected to Mindfulness? How is DEI Connected to Mindfulness? Tue, 10 Jan 2023 05:00:41 GMT 16:55 63bc414093de28001050477f false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/63bc414093de28001050477f 63bc414093de28001050477f 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full 2 1 Mindfulness isn’t just a personal wellness practice—it’s a leadership skill that can transform how you approach DEI. In this episode of What’s the Deal?, Shanté and Natalie explore how being present, self-aware, and intentional helps leaders navigate sensitive moments with empathy and clarity. Drawing on recent experiences at a DEI conference, they talk about the overwhelming scope of topics leaders face and why you don’t have to be an expert in every aspect to lead inclusively.


From everyday workplace scenarios—like navigating comments about hair or pregnancy—to broader cultural awareness, they unpack the difference between reacting and responding, and how a simple pause can prevent harm. You’ll hear practical tips on building rapport before diving into personal questions, and how to recover with sincerity when you get it wrong.


If you’re a leader striving to create inclusive spaces, this conversation will help you slow down, center others, and choose actions that foster trust and belonging.

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]]> Mindfulness isn’t just a personal wellness practice—it’s a leadership skill that can transform how you approach DEI. In this episode of What’s the Deal?, Shanté and Natalie explore how being present, self-aware, and intentional helps leaders navigate sensitive moments with empathy and clarity. Drawing on recent experiences at a DEI conference, they talk about the overwhelming scope of topics leaders face and why you don’t have to be an expert in every aspect to lead inclusively.


From everyday workplace scenarios—like navigating comments about hair or pregnancy—to broader cultural awareness, they unpack the difference between reacting and responding, and how a simple pause can prevent harm. You’ll hear practical tips on building rapport before diving into personal questions, and how to recover with sincerity when you get it wrong.


If you’re a leader striving to create inclusive spaces, this conversation will help you slow down, center others, and choose actions that foster trust and belonging.

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]]> The Mid-Level Manager Problem The Mid-Level Manager Problem Tue, 20 Dec 2022 05:00:49 GMT 11:57 63936ddbd29b670011c62b8c false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/63936ddbd29b670011c62b8c 63936ddbd29b670011c62b8c 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full 1 9 Middle managers often sit at the heart of your company’s culture, but are they equipped to lead on DEI? In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Shanté and Natalie dig into why middle managers are the “linchpin” for turning DEI strategies into real, lasting change.


Drawing from research and real-world experience, they explore how these leaders juggle managing up and down, navigate fear and uncertainty around DEI, and balance competing priorities in high-pressure environments. You’ll learn why even the best-written DEI plans can stall at this level and what organizations can do to operationalize DEI so it becomes part of everyday work, not an afterthought.


From identifying skill gaps to creating tailored training and building space for practice, the conversation offers practical steps for empowering managers to lead with clarity and purpose. If you’re serious about strengthening workplace culture and making DEI stick, this episode will show you where the real change begins.


Follow & Connect with us:

Follow Natalie Norfus on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalienorfus/.

Follow Shante Gordon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shantegordon/.

We’ve led hundreds of audits, assessments, and people strategy engagements, and we’d love to help your organization. Book a consultation with The Norfus Firm: https://thenorfusfirm.com/.

Follow What’s the DEIL on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatsthedeil/.

Follow What’s the DEIL on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@whatsthedeil.


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

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]]> Middle managers often sit at the heart of your company’s culture, but are they equipped to lead on DEI? In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Shanté and Natalie dig into why middle managers are the “linchpin” for turning DEI strategies into real, lasting change.


Drawing from research and real-world experience, they explore how these leaders juggle managing up and down, navigate fear and uncertainty around DEI, and balance competing priorities in high-pressure environments. You’ll learn why even the best-written DEI plans can stall at this level and what organizations can do to operationalize DEI so it becomes part of everyday work, not an afterthought.


From identifying skill gaps to creating tailored training and building space for practice, the conversation offers practical steps for empowering managers to lead with clarity and purpose. If you’re serious about strengthening workplace culture and making DEI stick, this episode will show you where the real change begins.


Follow & Connect with us:

Follow Natalie Norfus on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalienorfus/.

Follow Shante Gordon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shantegordon/.

We’ve led hundreds of audits, assessments, and people strategy engagements, and we’d love to help your organization. Book a consultation with The Norfus Firm: https://thenorfusfirm.com/.

Follow What’s the DEIL on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatsthedeil/.

Follow What’s the DEIL on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@whatsthedeil.


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> <![CDATA[Why Don't They Trust Me?]]> Tue, 13 Dec 2022 05:00:24 GMT 17:09 63852747fddd06001103e555 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/63852747fddd06001103e555 63852747fddd06001103e555 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full 1 8 In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Shanté and Natalie tackle one of the most underestimated elements of leadership—trust.


Through real-world data from senior leader assessments, they reveal an uncomfortable truth: even leaders often lack confidence in their ability to deliver on DEI commitments. And when words and actions don’t align, the ripple effect erodes morale, engagement, and long-term credibility.


They unpack why “open door policies” rarely work without consistent relationship-building, why the gap between leadership perception and employee experience matters, and how trust is built through repeated, intentional actions, not one-time gestures.


You’ll learn:

• The four elements of trust and how leaders can act on them daily

• Why “safe spaces” aren’t the same as “trusted spaces” and how to create the latter

• How to spot everyday behaviors that unintentionally undermine trust

• Practical ways to weave trust-building into your schedule and performance goals


Whether you lead a small team or an entire organization, this episode is a reminder: trust isn’t just a value—it’s a practice. And without it, even the best strategies fall flat.


Follow & Connect with us:


Follow Natalie Norfus on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalienorfus/.

Follow Shante Gordon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shantegordon/.

We’ve led hundreds of audits, assessments, and people strategy engagements, and we’d love to help your organization. Book a consultation with The Norfus Firm: https://thenorfusfirm.com/.

Follow What’s the DEIL on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatsthedeil/.

Follow What’s the DEIL on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@whatsthedeil.


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Shanté and Natalie tackle one of the most underestimated elements of leadership—trust.


Through real-world data from senior leader assessments, they reveal an uncomfortable truth: even leaders often lack confidence in their ability to deliver on DEI commitments. And when words and actions don’t align, the ripple effect erodes morale, engagement, and long-term credibility.


They unpack why “open door policies” rarely work without consistent relationship-building, why the gap between leadership perception and employee experience matters, and how trust is built through repeated, intentional actions, not one-time gestures.


You’ll learn:

• The four elements of trust and how leaders can act on them daily

• Why “safe spaces” aren’t the same as “trusted spaces” and how to create the latter

• How to spot everyday behaviors that unintentionally undermine trust

• Practical ways to weave trust-building into your schedule and performance goals


Whether you lead a small team or an entire organization, this episode is a reminder: trust isn’t just a value—it’s a practice. And without it, even the best strategies fall flat.


Follow & Connect with us:


Follow Natalie Norfus on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalienorfus/.

Follow Shante Gordon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shantegordon/.

We’ve led hundreds of audits, assessments, and people strategy engagements, and we’d love to help your organization. Book a consultation with The Norfus Firm: https://thenorfusfirm.com/.

Follow What’s the DEIL on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatsthedeil/.

Follow What’s the DEIL on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@whatsthedeil.


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> <![CDATA[Everybody Isn't Meant to Lead DEI]]> Tue, 06 Dec 2022 05:00:13 GMT 15:26 6377bb906814fb0011dcf52a false https://thenorfusfirm.com/everybody-isnt-meant-to-lead-dei 6377bb906814fb0011dcf52a 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full 1 7 In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Shanté and Natalie are fired up, and for good reason.


It’s time to have a real conversation about what it actually takes to lead DEI in an organization. Spoiler alert: Good intentions and lived experience alone aren’t enough.


We unpack the all-too-common trend of companies placing well-meaning but under-resourced employees, often women of color, into DEI roles with little support, no training, and sky-high expectations. This episode explores why DEI is a business function that deserves the same rigor, expertise, and strategic leadership as finance, sales, or operations.


Here’s what we cover:

• Why lived experience alone doesn’t equal DEI expertise

• The critical skills every DEI leader needs: strategy, collaboration, project management, data fluency, and comms savvy

• The hidden burnout crisis behind “volunteer” DEI committees

• What companies risk by underestimating the role, from stalled progress to real liability

• What to look for when hiring a true DEI quarterback (hint: it’s more than passion)

• Why strong communication and storytelling matter more than ever in advancing the work


Whether you’re in the C-suite or currently serving on a DEI committee with no clear roadmap, this episode is your wake-up call to do better, for the sake of your people and your business.


Follow & Connect with us:

Follow Natalie Norfus on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalienorfus/.

Follow Shante Gordon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shantegordon/.

We’ve led hundreds of audits, assessments, and people strategy engagements, and we’d love to help your organization. Book a consultation with The Norfus Firm: https://thenorfusfirm.com/.

Follow What’s the DEIL on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatsthedeil/.

Follow What’s the DEIL on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@whatsthedeil.


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Shanté and Natalie are fired up, and for good reason.


It’s time to have a real conversation about what it actually takes to lead DEI in an organization. Spoiler alert: Good intentions and lived experience alone aren’t enough.


We unpack the all-too-common trend of companies placing well-meaning but under-resourced employees, often women of color, into DEI roles with little support, no training, and sky-high expectations. This episode explores why DEI is a business function that deserves the same rigor, expertise, and strategic leadership as finance, sales, or operations.


Here’s what we cover:

• Why lived experience alone doesn’t equal DEI expertise

• The critical skills every DEI leader needs: strategy, collaboration, project management, data fluency, and comms savvy

• The hidden burnout crisis behind “volunteer” DEI committees

• What companies risk by underestimating the role, from stalled progress to real liability

• What to look for when hiring a true DEI quarterback (hint: it’s more than passion)

• Why strong communication and storytelling matter more than ever in advancing the work


Whether you’re in the C-suite or currently serving on a DEI committee with no clear roadmap, this episode is your wake-up call to do better, for the sake of your people and your business.


Follow & Connect with us:

Follow Natalie Norfus on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalienorfus/.

Follow Shante Gordon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shantegordon/.

We’ve led hundreds of audits, assessments, and people strategy engagements, and we’d love to help your organization. Book a consultation with The Norfus Firm: https://thenorfusfirm.com/.

Follow What’s the DEIL on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatsthedeil/.

Follow What’s the DEIL on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@whatsthedeil.


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> How We Dealt With Our Burnout How We Dealt With Our Burnout Tue, 29 Nov 2022 05:00:55 GMT 8:49 6385327055764200118527c5 false https://thenorfusfirm.com/how-we-dealt-with-our-burnout 6385327055764200118527c5 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full 1 6 In this special follow-up to our three-part burnout series, Shanté and Natalie get real about walking the talk. After helping clients navigate burnout, boundaries, and team capacity, our own team hit a wall.


We didn’t just talk about burnout—we lived it.


From packed client weeks and cross-country trainings to the emotional toll of complex people work, the exhaustion crept in. We started noticing the signs: work felt heavier, excitement waned, and even our most patient moments got shorter. So, we paused.


In this reflective episode, we share how we knew it was time to reset and the powerful exercises that helped us regroup with intention:

• Revisiting the “why” behind our business

• Mapping the services we can do vs. what we love to do

• Introducing the Return on Energy framework

• Learning to match client energy, not over-function

• Codifying how each team member feels about specific tasks (green light, neutral, red light)


This isn’t just a behind-the-scenes check-in—it’s a lesson in sustainability for leaders, teams, and organizations that are doing too much without enough return.


If you’ve ever burned the candle at both ends, said yes when you should’ve paused, or lost sight of your why, this one’s for you.


Let this episode be your reminder: burnout isn’t failure. It’s feedback. And your energy is just as important as your ROI.


Follow & Connect with us:

Follow Natalie Norfus on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalienorfus/.

Follow Shante Gordon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shantegordon/.

We’ve led hundreds of audits, assessments, and people strategy engagements, and we’d love to help your organization. Book a consultation with The Norfus Firm: https://thenorfusfirm.com/.

Follow What’s the DEIL on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatsthedeil/.

Follow What’s the DEIL on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@whatsthedeil.


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> In this special follow-up to our three-part burnout series, Shanté and Natalie get real about walking the talk. After helping clients navigate burnout, boundaries, and team capacity, our own team hit a wall.


We didn’t just talk about burnout—we lived it.


From packed client weeks and cross-country trainings to the emotional toll of complex people work, the exhaustion crept in. We started noticing the signs: work felt heavier, excitement waned, and even our most patient moments got shorter. So, we paused.


In this reflective episode, we share how we knew it was time to reset and the powerful exercises that helped us regroup with intention:

• Revisiting the “why” behind our business

• Mapping the services we can do vs. what we love to do

• Introducing the Return on Energy framework

• Learning to match client energy, not over-function

• Codifying how each team member feels about specific tasks (green light, neutral, red light)


This isn’t just a behind-the-scenes check-in—it’s a lesson in sustainability for leaders, teams, and organizations that are doing too much without enough return.


If you’ve ever burned the candle at both ends, said yes when you should’ve paused, or lost sight of your why, this one’s for you.


Let this episode be your reminder: burnout isn’t failure. It’s feedback. And your energy is just as important as your ROI.


Follow & Connect with us:

Follow Natalie Norfus on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalienorfus/.

Follow Shante Gordon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shantegordon/.

We’ve led hundreds of audits, assessments, and people strategy engagements, and we’d love to help your organization. Book a consultation with The Norfus Firm: https://thenorfusfirm.com/.

Follow What’s the DEIL on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatsthedeil/.

Follow What’s the DEIL on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@whatsthedeil.


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> Folks Are Tired! Part 3 Folks Are Tired! Part 3 Tue, 22 Nov 2022 05:00:46 GMT 16:33 6377ba4c707ceb0010034826 false https://thenorfusfirm.com/folks-are-tired-part-3 6377ba4c707ceb0010034826 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full 1 5 Burnout isn’t new, but how we respond to it in 2025 has to be.


In this final installment of our 3-part burnout series, Shante` and Natalie tackle what happens after you’ve identified burnout in yourself and your team. Now that you’ve named it, how do you lead through it? Especially in a world that keeps demanding more and more productivity, more output, more performance, without addressing the human cost.


With over three years of listening sessions, strategy work, and real-time feedback across industries, we’ve seen the patterns. And the truth is, your people are exhausted. But they’re still showing up. So what are you doing to meet them where they are?


We break down:

• Why leaders must redefine performance in a post-2020 world

• How to use our Acknowledgement Sandwich Framework to plan and lead in a burnout-aware workplace

• The real reason old KPIs and rigid productivity goals no longer work

• Why quiet quitting isn’t always disengagement—it’s often self-preservation

• The danger of half-baked wellness efforts that disappear without accountability

• And how burnout, if left unaddressed, creates a ripple effect that weakens trust, drives turnover, and damages your DEI goals


We get candid about what we’ve heard from employees and leaders across sectors—from tech and law to nonprofit and education—and what needs to shift if we’re going to build workplaces that truly work for people and performance.


Key Framework: The Acknowledgement Sandwich

1. Acknowledge – What’s actually happening? Be real about where your team is.

2. Plan – Use capacity planning and people data to rethink what’s realistic.

3. Execute – Move forward mindfully. Give space. Adjust goals with intention.

4. Acknowledge again – Share what’s working, what isn’t, and what’s next.


We’re calling on leaders to stop treating burnout as a personal issue and start treating it as the systemic challenge it is. The good news? With honesty, better planning, and a true people-first approach, you can reset your culture in a way that fuels both wellness and results.


If this episode hits home, go back and listen to Parts 1 and 2 of our burnout series to get the full picture. Then, share this episode with your leadership team and start a real conversation about what’s next.


Follow & Connect with us:

Follow Natalie Norfus on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalienorfus/.

Follow Shante Gordon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shantegordon/.

We’ve led hundreds of audits, assessments, and people strategy engagements, and we’d love to help your organization. Book a consultation with The Norfus Firm: https://thenorfusfirm.com/.

Follow What’s the DEIL on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatsthedeil/.

Follow What’s the DEIL on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@whatsthedeil.


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> Burnout isn’t new, but how we respond to it in 2025 has to be.


In this final installment of our 3-part burnout series, Shante` and Natalie tackle what happens after you’ve identified burnout in yourself and your team. Now that you’ve named it, how do you lead through it? Especially in a world that keeps demanding more and more productivity, more output, more performance, without addressing the human cost.


With over three years of listening sessions, strategy work, and real-time feedback across industries, we’ve seen the patterns. And the truth is, your people are exhausted. But they’re still showing up. So what are you doing to meet them where they are?


We break down:

• Why leaders must redefine performance in a post-2020 world

• How to use our Acknowledgement Sandwich Framework to plan and lead in a burnout-aware workplace

• The real reason old KPIs and rigid productivity goals no longer work

• Why quiet quitting isn’t always disengagement—it’s often self-preservation

• The danger of half-baked wellness efforts that disappear without accountability

• And how burnout, if left unaddressed, creates a ripple effect that weakens trust, drives turnover, and damages your DEI goals


We get candid about what we’ve heard from employees and leaders across sectors—from tech and law to nonprofit and education—and what needs to shift if we’re going to build workplaces that truly work for people and performance.


Key Framework: The Acknowledgement Sandwich

1. Acknowledge – What’s actually happening? Be real about where your team is.

2. Plan – Use capacity planning and people data to rethink what’s realistic.

3. Execute – Move forward mindfully. Give space. Adjust goals with intention.

4. Acknowledge again – Share what’s working, what isn’t, and what’s next.


We’re calling on leaders to stop treating burnout as a personal issue and start treating it as the systemic challenge it is. The good news? With honesty, better planning, and a true people-first approach, you can reset your culture in a way that fuels both wellness and results.


If this episode hits home, go back and listen to Parts 1 and 2 of our burnout series to get the full picture. Then, share this episode with your leadership team and start a real conversation about what’s next.


Follow & Connect with us:

Follow Natalie Norfus on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalienorfus/.

Follow Shante Gordon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shantegordon/.

We’ve led hundreds of audits, assessments, and people strategy engagements, and we’d love to help your organization. Book a consultation with The Norfus Firm: https://thenorfusfirm.com/.

Follow What’s the DEIL on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatsthedeil/.

Follow What’s the DEIL on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@whatsthedeil.


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> Folks Are Tired! Part 2 Folks Are Tired! Part 2 Tue, 15 Nov 2022 05:00:03 GMT 16:35 636987307550d00011cdefe1 false https://thenorfusfirm.com/folks-are-tired-part-2 636987307550d00011cdefe1 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full 1 4 In Part 2 of our burnout series, we’re digging into a truth many leaders quietly carry: you can’t support your team if you’re running on empty.


Shante and Natalie return to explore what burnout really looks like from the top. This isn’t about hustle culture or generic self-care tips—it’s a candid, real-world conversation about the emotional weight leaders carry, and why acknowledging that weight is not a weakness, but a powerful first step toward sustainable leadership.


We talk about the loneliness that often accompanies leadership roles, the masks leaders wear, and the very human need for space, support, and connection. You’ll hear insights on:

• Why self-awareness is the gateway to managing burnout as a leader

• The “reality TV effect” and how your team always sees more than you think

• Why vulnerability doesn’t mean oversharing—and what thoughtful transparency actually looks like

• Creating space for honest check-ins and the energy exchange within teams

• How burnout manifests when we pretend everything is fine (and what to do instead)

• Why discomfort often precedes real growth, and how to lead through it


Leaders at all levels—from emerging managers to seasoned executives—will find themselves in this episode. If you’ve ever felt like you’re running on fumes while trying to lead with strength, this one’s for you.


💡 Key takeaway: Burnout isn’t just a personal issue—it’s a leadership issue. The more honest you are with yourself, the more human and impactful you can be with others.


Follow & Connect with us:

Follow Natalie Norfus on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalienorfus/.

Follow Shante Gordon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shantegordon/.

We’ve led hundreds of audits, assessments, and people strategy engagements, and we’d love to help your organization. Book a consultation with The Norfus Firm: https://thenorfusfirm.com/.

Follow What’s the DEIL on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatsthedeil/.

Follow What’s the DEIL on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@whatsthedeil.


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> In Part 2 of our burnout series, we’re digging into a truth many leaders quietly carry: you can’t support your team if you’re running on empty.


Shante and Natalie return to explore what burnout really looks like from the top. This isn’t about hustle culture or generic self-care tips—it’s a candid, real-world conversation about the emotional weight leaders carry, and why acknowledging that weight is not a weakness, but a powerful first step toward sustainable leadership.


We talk about the loneliness that often accompanies leadership roles, the masks leaders wear, and the very human need for space, support, and connection. You’ll hear insights on:

• Why self-awareness is the gateway to managing burnout as a leader

• The “reality TV effect” and how your team always sees more than you think

• Why vulnerability doesn’t mean oversharing—and what thoughtful transparency actually looks like

• Creating space for honest check-ins and the energy exchange within teams

• How burnout manifests when we pretend everything is fine (and what to do instead)

• Why discomfort often precedes real growth, and how to lead through it


Leaders at all levels—from emerging managers to seasoned executives—will find themselves in this episode. If you’ve ever felt like you’re running on fumes while trying to lead with strength, this one’s for you.


💡 Key takeaway: Burnout isn’t just a personal issue—it’s a leadership issue. The more honest you are with yourself, the more human and impactful you can be with others.


Follow & Connect with us:

Follow Natalie Norfus on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalienorfus/.

Follow Shante Gordon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shantegordon/.

We’ve led hundreds of audits, assessments, and people strategy engagements, and we’d love to help your organization. Book a consultation with The Norfus Firm: https://thenorfusfirm.com/.

Follow What’s the DEIL on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatsthedeil/.

Follow What’s the DEIL on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@whatsthedeil.


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> Folks Are Tired! Part 1 Folks Are Tired! Part 1 Tue, 08 Nov 2022 05:00:56 GMT 17:04 63696e94324720001144ed5e false https://thenorfusfirm.com/folks-are-tired-part-1 63696e94324720001144ed5e 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full 1 3 Welcome to Part 1 of our powerful three-part series on burnout in the workplace and what it really means when people say they’re “quiet quitting.” Shanté and Natalie are getting cozy (literally—there’s a whole knitwear moment) to have an honest conversation about how burnout shows up, especially for historically excluded groups.


This episode breaks down the three dimensions of burnout:

🧠 Energetic depletion

🧊 Disconnection from the work and people

📉 Decline in performance


We go beyond the buzzwords and into what burnout actually looks and feels like, from the creeping cynicism to the dreaded Monday mornings to that “why am I even here?” spiral.


But this isn’t just a mental health conversation. It’s a DEI one.


You’ll hear us unpack:

•Why burnout disproportionately affects people of color and other marginalized communities

•How the pandemic intensified inequities and stressors across industries

•What “quiet quitting” is really about (spoiler: it’s not about being lazy)

•Why some folks can “opt out” of hustle culture while others simply can’t

•What does it mean when hard work doesn’t translate into access, opportunity, or reward


We also share real-life examples from client investigations and our own lives that reveal how these issues manifest in ways leaders often overlook.


This isn’t about blaming employees or expecting perfection from employers. It’s about building more aware, more equitable, and more humane workplaces.


In This Episode, You’ll Learn:

•The root causes of burnout and how to spot it before it leads to attrition

•How DEI intersects with performance expectations, workplace pressure, and promotion access

•What leaders often miss when people disengage—and how they can course-correct


Follow & Connect with us:

- Follow Natalie Norfus on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalienorfus/.

- Follow Shante Gordon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shantegordon/.

- We’ve led hundreds of audits, assessments, and people strategy engagements, and we’d love to help your organization. Book a consultation with The Norfus Firm: https://thenorfusfirm.com/.

- Follow What’s the DEIL on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatsthedeil/.

- Follow What’s the DEIL on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@whatsthedeil.


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> Welcome to Part 1 of our powerful three-part series on burnout in the workplace and what it really means when people say they’re “quiet quitting.” Shanté and Natalie are getting cozy (literally—there’s a whole knitwear moment) to have an honest conversation about how burnout shows up, especially for historically excluded groups.


This episode breaks down the three dimensions of burnout:

🧠 Energetic depletion

🧊 Disconnection from the work and people

📉 Decline in performance


We go beyond the buzzwords and into what burnout actually looks and feels like, from the creeping cynicism to the dreaded Monday mornings to that “why am I even here?” spiral.


But this isn’t just a mental health conversation. It’s a DEI one.


You’ll hear us unpack:

•Why burnout disproportionately affects people of color and other marginalized communities

•How the pandemic intensified inequities and stressors across industries

•What “quiet quitting” is really about (spoiler: it’s not about being lazy)

•Why some folks can “opt out” of hustle culture while others simply can’t

•What does it mean when hard work doesn’t translate into access, opportunity, or reward


We also share real-life examples from client investigations and our own lives that reveal how these issues manifest in ways leaders often overlook.


This isn’t about blaming employees or expecting perfection from employers. It’s about building more aware, more equitable, and more humane workplaces.


In This Episode, You’ll Learn:

•The root causes of burnout and how to spot it before it leads to attrition

•How DEI intersects with performance expectations, workplace pressure, and promotion access

•What leaders often miss when people disengage—and how they can course-correct


Follow & Connect with us:

- Follow Natalie Norfus on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalienorfus/.

- Follow Shante Gordon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shantegordon/.

- We’ve led hundreds of audits, assessments, and people strategy engagements, and we’d love to help your organization. Book a consultation with The Norfus Firm: https://thenorfusfirm.com/.

- Follow What’s the DEIL on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatsthedeil/.

- Follow What’s the DEIL on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@whatsthedeil.


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> So, Now What? So, Now What? Tue, 01 Nov 2022 10:00:43 GMT 16:21 635fed01ce73ed0012ef8cc8 false https://thenorfusfirm.com/so-now-what 635fed01ce73ed0012ef8cc8 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full 1 2 Natalie and Shanté return to tackle a question that’s been popping up across boardrooms, HR departments, and Slack messages: “Now what?”


Post-2020, many organizations sprinted into action after George Floyd’s murder—launching DEI task forces, writing internal memos, and hosting webinars. But two and a half years later, leaders are fatigued, teams are skeptical, and progress feels stagnant. So what’s next?


In this episode, Natalie and Shanté offer a candid and practical conversation about how companies can reset DEI expectations without giving up on the work.


What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• Why DEI isn’t a moment—it’s a movement

2020 wasn’t the finish line. It was the starting pistol. If your strategy hasn’t evolved since then, it’s time for a reset.

• How to identify whether you even have a ‘problem’

Hint: You can’t measure what you haven’t defined. Step one is getting honest about where you are and where you want to be.

• Why data matters—but it’s not just numbers

Quantitative AND qualitative data give you the whole picture. Have you actually asked your people what they’re experiencing?

• The myth of one-and-done

DEI is not a checklist. Natalie and Shante break down how to approach the work with an iterative, Agile mindset—including setting clear, measurable goals and revisiting them regularly.

• The role of leadership transparency and authenticity

Your comms team can’t write you into trust. Today’s workforce expects vulnerability, honesty, and human connection—from the C-suite down.

• Why volunteer DEI committees aren’t enough

Good intentions don’t replace true expertise. If your team is working without strategic guidance, they’ll likely burn out or stall. You need a plan—and a pro.

• The Serena Williams Effect

What do we mean? Tune in for a fascinating cultural parallel that explains why today’s employees demand visibility, not just vision statements.


Key Takeaways:

• A pause doesn’t mean stop. It means evaluate, reflect, and reset.

• Every DEI initiative needs aligned, transparent goals, and the team needs to know them.

• Authenticity isn’t optional. Your people are watching how you lead, not just what you say.

• If you’re not sure what to do next, it’s okay to say so. But it’s not okay to stay stuck.


Follow & Connect with us:

- Follow Natalie Norfus on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalienorfus/.

- Follow Shante Gordon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shantegordon/.

- We’ve led hundreds of audits, assessments, and people strategy engagements, and we’d love to help your organization. Book a consultation with The Norfus Firm: https://thenorfusfirm.com/.

- Follow What’s the DEIL on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatsthedeil/.

- Follow What’s the DEIL on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@whatsthedeil.


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> Natalie and Shanté return to tackle a question that’s been popping up across boardrooms, HR departments, and Slack messages: “Now what?”


Post-2020, many organizations sprinted into action after George Floyd’s murder—launching DEI task forces, writing internal memos, and hosting webinars. But two and a half years later, leaders are fatigued, teams are skeptical, and progress feels stagnant. So what’s next?


In this episode, Natalie and Shanté offer a candid and practical conversation about how companies can reset DEI expectations without giving up on the work.


What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• Why DEI isn’t a moment—it’s a movement

2020 wasn’t the finish line. It was the starting pistol. If your strategy hasn’t evolved since then, it’s time for a reset.

• How to identify whether you even have a ‘problem’

Hint: You can’t measure what you haven’t defined. Step one is getting honest about where you are and where you want to be.

• Why data matters—but it’s not just numbers

Quantitative AND qualitative data give you the whole picture. Have you actually asked your people what they’re experiencing?

• The myth of one-and-done

DEI is not a checklist. Natalie and Shante break down how to approach the work with an iterative, Agile mindset—including setting clear, measurable goals and revisiting them regularly.

• The role of leadership transparency and authenticity

Your comms team can’t write you into trust. Today’s workforce expects vulnerability, honesty, and human connection—from the C-suite down.

• Why volunteer DEI committees aren’t enough

Good intentions don’t replace true expertise. If your team is working without strategic guidance, they’ll likely burn out or stall. You need a plan—and a pro.

• The Serena Williams Effect

What do we mean? Tune in for a fascinating cultural parallel that explains why today’s employees demand visibility, not just vision statements.


Key Takeaways:

• A pause doesn’t mean stop. It means evaluate, reflect, and reset.

• Every DEI initiative needs aligned, transparent goals, and the team needs to know them.

• Authenticity isn’t optional. Your people are watching how you lead, not just what you say.

• If you’re not sure what to do next, it’s okay to say so. But it’s not okay to stay stuck.


Follow & Connect with us:

- Follow Natalie Norfus on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalienorfus/.

- Follow Shante Gordon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shantegordon/.

- We’ve led hundreds of audits, assessments, and people strategy engagements, and we’d love to help your organization. Book a consultation with The Norfus Firm: https://thenorfusfirm.com/.

- Follow What’s the DEIL on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatsthedeil/.

- Follow What’s the DEIL on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@whatsthedeil.


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> DEI is Dead DEI is Dead Tue, 25 Oct 2022 10:00:15 GMT 21:23 6356b83e5f0a00001230b946 false https://thenorfusfirm.com/dei-is-dead 6356b83e5f0a00001230b946 6344668c20046b00119746e6 full 1 1 Welcome to the debut episode of What’s the DEIL, a podcast powered by The Norfus Firm that gets into the honest conversations about Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Leadership (DEIL). In this kickoff episode, co-hosts Natalie Norfus and Shanté Gordon ask a provocative question: Is DEI dead? Not because the work is over, but because it can’t continue as a siloed initiative. It’s time to make it the fabric of how we lead.


Drawing from nearly two decades of combined experience in employment law, corporate leadership, wellness, and DEI strategy, Natalie and Shanté share:


- The fatigue and frustration organizations feel post-2020

- Why DEI efforts are fading (and why they shouldn’t)

- How the lack of self-reflection among leaders is stalling progress

- The difference between performative action and sustained change

- Why DEI should die… as a separate department—and be reborn as part of everyday business strategy


You’ll also learn why shared language matters, how to set better expectations around DEI timelines, and why leaders who avoid doing their own inner work will never see outer change.


Takeaways:

• DEI doesn’t have an end date—it’s a long-term business commitment.

• Leaders must do the self-work to lead inclusively.

• DEI strategies fail when they’re treated as side projects instead of core priorities.

• If your recruiting strategy needs a DEI lens, it’s still just one recruiting strategy.

• Inclusion can’t happen without integration.


This episode isn’t just for DEI professionals. It’s for the decision-makers, the skeptics, and anyone wondering what “doing the work” really looks like.


Follow & Connect with us:

- Follow Natalie Norfus on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalienorfus/.

- Follow Shante Gordon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shantegordon/.

- We’ve led hundreds of audits, assessments, and people strategy engagements, and we’d love to help your organization. Book a consultation with The Norfus Firm: https://thenorfusfirm.com/.

- Follow What’s the DEIL on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatsthedeil/.

- Follow What’s the DEIL on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@whatsthedeil.


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> Welcome to the debut episode of What’s the DEIL, a podcast powered by The Norfus Firm that gets into the honest conversations about Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Leadership (DEIL). In this kickoff episode, co-hosts Natalie Norfus and Shanté Gordon ask a provocative question: Is DEI dead? Not because the work is over, but because it can’t continue as a siloed initiative. It’s time to make it the fabric of how we lead.


Drawing from nearly two decades of combined experience in employment law, corporate leadership, wellness, and DEI strategy, Natalie and Shanté share:


- The fatigue and frustration organizations feel post-2020

- Why DEI efforts are fading (and why they shouldn’t)

- How the lack of self-reflection among leaders is stalling progress

- The difference between performative action and sustained change

- Why DEI should die… as a separate department—and be reborn as part of everyday business strategy


You’ll also learn why shared language matters, how to set better expectations around DEI timelines, and why leaders who avoid doing their own inner work will never see outer change.


Takeaways:

• DEI doesn’t have an end date—it’s a long-term business commitment.

• Leaders must do the self-work to lead inclusively.

• DEI strategies fail when they’re treated as side projects instead of core priorities.

• If your recruiting strategy needs a DEI lens, it’s still just one recruiting strategy.

• Inclusion can’t happen without integration.


This episode isn’t just for DEI professionals. It’s for the decision-makers, the skeptics, and anyone wondering what “doing the work” really looks like.


Follow & Connect with us:

- Follow Natalie Norfus on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalienorfus/.

- Follow Shante Gordon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shantegordon/.

- We’ve led hundreds of audits, assessments, and people strategy engagements, and we’d love to help your organization. Book a consultation with The Norfus Firm: https://thenorfusfirm.com/.

- Follow What’s the DEIL on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatsthedeil/.

- Follow What’s the DEIL on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@whatsthedeil.


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review!

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> <![CDATA[What's the DEIL?]]> Wed, 12 Oct 2022 16:56:21 GMT 0:52 6346f1b552014700118ef6e5 false https://shows.acast.com/whats-the-deil/episodes/whats-the-deil 6346f1b552014700118ef6e5 6344668c20046b00119746e6 whats-the-deil full “What’s the DEIL?” is a podcast for organizational leaders - and those who support them - as they make their way along their DEI journey. We explore how leaders can create space for authentic human connection through the lens of DEI. In this podcast, we discuss real and relevant work issues in a way that centers people and challenges leaders to go above and beyond in their efforts to improve workplace culture.


We know you’re busy - so we focus on practical strategies and solid practices that improve employee engagement, retention and impact.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]> “What’s the DEIL?” is a podcast for organizational leaders - and those who support them - as they make their way along their DEI journey. We explore how leaders can create space for authentic human connection through the lens of DEI. In this podcast, we discuss real and relevant work issues in a way that centers people and challenges leaders to go above and beyond in their efforts to improve workplace culture.


We know you’re busy - so we focus on practical strategies and solid practices that improve employee engagement, retention and impact.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

]]>